It was a horrible episode. Not because it necessarily paralleled anything in the real world (though I do think that, as usual, Jonah Goldberg is onto something), but because it rendered the psyche of Adama inexplicable. I can actually accept that, given the circumstances, a person could develop irrational beliefs that he was in some way responsible for the genocide of this species–faced with that kind of stress and trauma, the mind can do all sorts of strange things. That kind of delusion could even form the foundation of an interesting character. But in the case of Adama, there’s no way we could have not seen it until now. That kind of deeply disfunctional belief, granted Adama’s critical position, would taint his every move. Instead, we’ve seen no hint of anything even resembling genocidal guilt until this latest episode. That’s a fictional no-sale.

Also of irritation was that not even Roslin–the supposed voice of reason in this case–didn’t make the obvious point: That in light of the fact that the Cylons did indeed launch a massive attack against humanity, perhaps the “paranoia” of the Admirals leading up to the recon mission was in fact well-founded, as in retrospect the Cylons were indeed amassing an invasion fleet.

It can make good fiction when characters hold irrational beliefs (in fact, that might even be necessary for good fiction), but it never makes good fiction when all the characters–including the ones meant to be smart and insightful–come across as conspicuously more dense than the audience.

Lehuster on November 21, 2006 at 11:49 AM

I don’t know that I agree with this. Almost anytime you hear Bush sound bytes in the news, he mentions the war on terror and stresses the importance of our fight. I think we just hear it so much that it becomes background noise. The problem is that those sound bytes are mostly what we get. He has been criticized – fairly, I think – for not framing the debate in strategic and frequent speeches. Blair did this very well, but while leading the liberal Labor party. Bush on the other hand, leads (or led) the choir and could have taken a page from the Blair-book on how to communicate uncomfortable and philosophical ideals in well-timed pieces. It’s about a strategic message over time, and it’s the “over time” piece Bush fell down on. His other problem is that he delegates too much. He may be “the decider”, but I think he has remained too far-removed from the grunt work to know if his advisors are earning their pay. There’s no doubt the Iraq war will be the piece that defines his presidency. We know from his grade point average that he is an intelligent man. I just wish he were a bit more clever.

Two things here: Don’t believe a word Andrew Sullivan says about conservatives…

No worries here. I don’t believe much of what that pedantic Drama Queen has to say on any subject.

Bryan at HotAir gives Battlestar Galactica the moral-equivalence smackdown: This (the show’s take) is dumb for so many reasons, which Jonah Goldberg explains here. We in the West are, as Jonah says and I’ve said once or twice as well,……

While I’m at it, I may as well go ahead and blame Sesame Street in general.

This could be fun. Who else can we blame for America’s not being ready to wage war?

ccwbass on November 21, 2006 at 1:49 PM

Maybe s/he thought you’d spent too much time in 2nd grade studying the Pentagon Papers, Watergate and Lt. Calley’s trial for the My Lai massacre.

While I applaud you for remembering anything from third grade, but I have to wonder what you expected to learn at the ripe ol’ age of 8?

Seriously, I do agree with you about the failure of schools to prepare us for facing war, balancing a checkbook (nevermind a state or federal budget)… anything. Having worked for several years in a school system (pre- and post- Bush’s “No Child Left Behind Act”) I can tell you there was a collective sigh of relief from the bad teachers all over the country when the Dems swept the recent election. Most of those teachers have been forced to work harder since that program’s inception and it’s tie-in to federal funding of education. Before then I think there was a sense of no-one’s-watching-the-storeschool.

The last few years there has been a significant positive change (should I dare to say a national upward trend?) in test scores. Some schools have felt the heat as administrators scrambled to keep their districts from falling into that dreaded third and final year of failing standardized test scores.

Now, with Bush in his lame duck years, the program will fall by the wayside because the Dummycrats hate it. They prefer their voters to be educationally challenged. After all, it’s so much easier to influence those who are content to get their “current events” (part of every Friday’s assignment when I was a child) from MTV or The Dailey Show.

God bless all the conscientious teachers who work very hard and get paid relatively nothing for it. It won’t matter to them which party is in power.

Just needed to get that off my chest. Thanks. ;^)

I am absolutely serious in my view that Dubya has failed to sell this war to the American people and keep it sold. Worse, I am not sure he has really tried.

the reason President Bush has been obliged to soft-peddle the war in the first place is because in the decades prior to 9/11 our nation – more precisely, our culture – had its collective spine slowly and proudly taken out

The nation got a wake-up call on 9/11, and wanted to be led, but the message – the leadership! – from the administration just wasn’t there. Go back to bed, lead your normal life, see a movie, go shopping, that was what we heard.

For example, think about our public schools and how remarkably screwed they are,

I agree that is part of the problem, but has Bush taken ANY positive steps whatsoever to reverse that process? It took decades to get as bad as it has, and you can’t turn that supertanker around on a dime, but what is the evidence he has even put any pressure on the helm?

The administration, when it has tried to fight cultural battles at all, has fought them incompetently and half-heartedly. Why should we expect an administration that won’t even defend our border to defend our culture? If they cared about our culture they would control the border!

If President Bush speaks to us as if we are, for the most part, a nation that can’t handle the ugly, ugly truth with maturity and responsibility and the necessary tightening of belts and etc., well – in this day and age, he has a point.

If the battle is lost, he shouldn’t even try?

Doesn’t the fact that the man had to compromise his way to a half-assed declaration just to win votes for going to war in Iraq in the first place suggest that President Bush has never actually been the problem?

That is a perfect example of his timid non-leadership! The guy didn’t have the stones to make a straightforward, honest case for removing Saddam on the general principle of realpolitik, so instead he had to cobble together a half-assed mishmosh of reasons that soon fell apart.

We aren’t serious, and blaming Bush is just a way of looking for a scapegoat that makes us feel all good about ourselves. “We stayed the course, but he didn’t!”

I have more confidence in the American people than that. I think the spine is there, it just needs a brain to lead it and some balls to motivate it. Bush has not provided either.

It is astonishing to me that anyone could deny that (a) it is the President’s job to provide war leadership, and (b) Bush has failed in that task. It is fundamental to the job description of the President to provide war leadership! That is what he is elected to do!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061119/NEWS03/611190639

Read the quote from mom!

No to a time machine. Yes to a nuclear device LOL

That’s good parenting.

Has anyone seen the movie “V for Vendetta”?

Little Green Footballs had a comment and a link to a gathering of characters. . . .
I love the costume.

The real story is how a small band of survivors prevail over setbacks. The genocide is ancient history, it happened, that chapter of human history has already been written.

In every human situation there are emotional ups and downs, and currently BSG is down, ‘way down. There have been factions dividing the group, and there always will be; it’s part of the human condition.

If you must make it a lesson for humanity, consider this. We are divided, we are on the verge of going to war with ourselves, rather than fighting our common enemy. We have factions within our group who commit treason, who are on the side of our enemy.

So what are we going to do about it?

I know, I know, I’ll write a letter to the editor. . . .

I assume you’re serious, in which case I’d like to suggest that the reason President Bush has been obliged to soft-peddle the war in the first place is because in the decades prior to 9/11 our nation – more precisely, our culture – had its collective spine slowly and proudly taken out and replaced with velveeta cheese and nerf sponge in the form of [insert liberal cultural triumph here].

For example, think about our public schools and how remarkably screwed they are, especially if you’re a conservative who actually likes the United States of America. Think about how they got that way. Think about how long this “progress” in social programming has been marching on.

Apply that same filter pretty much across the board, culturally.

See what I’m saying? Fact is, we progressive U.S. citizens were farked when it came to steeling ourselves for war and its implications a looooooong time before jihad crashed on our shores. If President Bush speaks to us as if we are, for the most part, a nation that can’t handle the ugly, ugly truth with maturity and responsibility and the necessary tightening of belts and etc., well – in this day and age, he has a point.

Doesn’t the fact that the man had to compromise his way to a half-assed declaration just to win votes for going to war in Iraq in the first place suggest that President Bush has never actually been the problem?

We aren’t serious, and blaming Bush is just a way of looking for a scapegoat that makes us feel all good about ourselves. “We stayed the course, but he didn’t!”

Who do I blame? For starters, I blame my 3rd grade teacher who spent an entire week in 1973 teaching the class the lines to The Carpenters’ “Sing.” That’s my grade school education in a nutshell.

While I’m at it, I may as well go ahead and blame Sesame Street in general.

This could be fun. Who else can we blame for America’s not being ready to wage war?

Not to defend Michael Richards — at all — but why does Lopez get away with making this kind of joke? Especially at a relief concert? And why did Richards’ hecklers get away with calling him a “cracker?”
Because White Americans are too scared to defend themselves (although I think that is slowly changing).
SouthernGent on November 21, 2006 at 12:04 PM

Sorry SG, but does anyone seriously think the word “cracker” carries with it the vile historical weight of the word “nigg-r”? If I can ever find my indentured servant-great-great-great-great-grandmother’s journal, do you think I’ll see the word “cracker” used as something other than as a means of sustenance, as in a racial slur?

As far as your comment about “white Americans” being “too scared to defend themselves (although I think that is slowly changing)” goes, that offends me. Considering the fact that “white Americans” make up more than 73% of current war-time military recruits, I think we can agree it’s safe to rule out that as a race we are pu$$ies, no?

Anyway, since the election there are many “white Americans” like me whose blood pressure has been spiking out of control especially when near anything put out by MSM. We are easily recognizable. Just look around the next time you find yourself at a newstand or in a waiting room with a tv permanently set to CNN. We’re the ones with the bulging neck veins and pink to reddish flush on our faces. Although I don’t claim to be their spokesperson, I would have to note that we no longer fit the characteristic “white cracker” profile. So, perhaps we’ll have to come up with a more accurate but colorful “slur”. I’m sort of leaning toward “tomatohead” but remain open for suggestions. Try to be nice though. I’m new around here ;^)

I thought Adama was a pussy in this episode; he’s usually the one who knows what needs to be done. Roslin has surprised me 2 episodes in a row now. Brain transplants perhaps?

Adama was safely up on the battlestar while Roslin was down on the planet with the cylons. I think that toughened her up.

Period.

Look, I don’t watch BSG to see a 3rd Millenium version of the 70′s Star Trek voyages. And I don’t approach the show expecting nor looking for those messages.

But to any of you who argue that Bryan’s reading too much into this episode – step toward the light, you are in DENIAL.

It’s the same old, “If we do this we’ll be no better than them” argument. Ok, I’ll go along with that in theory. Just because the Jihadis cut off heads doesn’t mean we should, too. But hey, war stinks. You have to bomb cities and do stuff that you would rather not do.

You. Must. Survive.

Firebomb Dresden? Check.
Nuke Nagasaki? Check.

Win the war, dude. We haven’t and won’t commit(ted) genocide against the Muslims, even if they want us all gone. BUT…
BSG is a totally different story. They are MACHINES!!! They’re not real…. well, humans. Kill them all! They bent over backward to get us to see that we must consider that they have rights, we must be tolerant. Just like the MSM and liberals want us to respect and be tolerant of those who declared war on us.

Colonialists can keep Starbuck. Ick.

I’m off to work on my plan.

Outside of that I’ve thought it was funny that liberals were saying the Cylons were conservatives when the show clearly states at the beginning of each episode that the Cylons “have a plan”. So if there is a hidden message in the show it would be that conservatives do in fact have a plan and liberals don’t.

Has anyone seen criticism of BSG for its frequent depiction of smoking? I find the lack of criticism surprising.

You know who else had the call sign “Bulldog?” Jeff Gannon. Brokeback Battlestar, wait for it.

Bryan, I do think making insulting comments about a group is different than calling someone a name to their face. Not to say that what Lopez said was good and/or funny…

1. Cut your gasoline consumption by just 10%;

2. Cut your purchases from China just 10%.

They will have an impact. But will America do it?

Look back even at the issue of banning abortion in the Fleet. Roslin was pro-abortion, and probably still is. But for humanity to survive, they need to have babies. She knew this, and was able to put aside her personal feelings.

But, sitting there (apparently forgetting about the enemy) made them complacent. What happened was probably inevitable, whether or not Adama broke the armistice.

And the guy in the fighter that got destroyed. Why does he feel ill-will toward Adama? He knew the risks going in, obviously and was probably well aware that if he was discovered, he’d be killed or his ship destroyed – cylons or humans, his discovery would not have been acceptable. I thought he was a coward for ejecting personally.

But in reality, if you or I were Adama and experienced what he experienced just before the entire human race was massacred (essentially), we would certainly have pent up emotions and harbor feelings of guilt that perhaps we were somehow to blame. On a human level, the storyline is absolutely believable. It only becomes a problem when you assume that they are meaning to comment on this or that.

And in the end, his feelings of guilt were dismissed by Roslyn who gave him an award, so to the extent that the show might have actually meant to provide commentary it came down in a fairly neutral way that didn’t end up saying anything.