Charles Johnson
Nov 15, 2006 at 8:05 am PST

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23354_Glenn_Beck-_The_Extremist_Agenda&only

aaaaaaaah…..the good old days of MamaWinger & Lizardia.

RD: Ok, we’ll just do a graph that says MUSLIMS = KILLERS.

What are you suggesting? That something I wrote above implies this equivalence?

When Allah enjoins all Muslims to offensive jihad to extend the reach of Islamic law, he does not command killing. The idea that Islamic jihad is synonymous with killing is a dangerous fallacy that interferes dramatically with our ability to understand the big picture — such as, for one, how jihad might possibly apply to all pious Muslims without straining credulity (“What? Now you’re saying all Muslims are killers? Or maybe you’re implying they ‘ought’ to be in order to be good Muslims??”).

And not only is this jihad not necessarily lethal (as we both know it can be merely violent, merely intimidating, or merely irritating), but not every member of the umma is expected to martyr themselves, only to support the jihad and not thwart it. Having said that, most of the jihad violence and intimidation committed in the world today is most certainly lawful, in all sects, and interfering with or condemning lawful jihad constitutes apostasy, in all sects. As a result I don’t believe a graphic purporting to clarify the subject but actually obfuscating such an important point demonstrates a high degree of common sense.

You’ll be very persuasive to those you’re trying to enlighten.

Careful. We play a dangerous game when we begin to use such arguments to sidestep legitimate questions about our own understanding of a problem. And I hope you’re not suggesting that there ought to be two different understandings that contradict on multiple levels, one for those who “know” and another for those who don’t.

You do realize this material is being made not for the choir but for the people who don’t know.

As the graphic stands, not only is it inaccurate, but it is misleading. And that is not a good thing IMHO. Especially when your stated objective is to enlighten and educate.

Try to use some common sense about how to effectively communicate unpleasant truths with the objective of persuasion.

Persuasion for its own sake not a virtue in my eyes. Exactly what truth are you trying to persuade someone of? That Muslims by and large buy into this picture? Or that they don’t, but that somehow we ought to because it’s the real one and Muslims are just too stupid to realize it?

And is it common sense to suggest that the root of the problem is really a sub-sect of Islam – more precisely, a sub-sect of Salafism called “jihadis”? If that were true, then as long as “moderate” Salafists managed to talk those renegades out of their irrationally conceived jihadism, such as by appealing to the true faith, then the coercive struggle to impose Islamic law on the rest of the world through jihad might cease.

Is that the kind of common sense you’re suggesting ought to preached?

If I deserve to be corrected (or reprimanded, as you seem to indulge) for anything I said above, it had better be on the substance of the issue and not on unverified preconceptions about the efficacy of its communication to newbies.

A disclaimer: I don’t know who I’m criticizing or how this discussion happens to sit with them, since I don’t know (and don’t care) who authored the graphic or for what specific purpose. But FWIW I still believe that it presents an excellent mechanism for conveying the Big Picture. And VinceP1974, I still look forward to the Spencer/Trifkovic/Ye’Or/Warraq version (or a revised 2nd draft), confident that whoever authors it will be employ common sense given they will be communicating with the wider world and not just a cadre of yes-men.

Ah, so you think people with opinions you don’t like are stupid?

No Pablo. If that were the case, I would think you were stupid. And I don’t engage in dialogue with people I think are stupid.

At 13 years of age and he’s been doing it since. Do you really think he’s stupid, honora, or does he frighten you with his scary words? Is he like the evil genius Bushitler or is he more the bumbling Chimperor sort of guy?

Pablo on November 16, 2006 at 5:17 PM

I actually watched part of this last night. Beck pronounces the noun expose (there should be an accent on the final e, can’t remember how to do that, as 2 syllables. Do I still think he’s stupid. Yeah I do.

Jon Stewart had a funny bit on Beck last night, mocking his “I’ve been to a mosque, I have Muslim friends” cringe inducing lead up to the truly remarkable “prove to me you won’t blow us up” remark to the Muslim congressman.

Hey Glenn, prove to me you’re not an asshole. (And I do have asshole friends…)

When was the last time you saw a speech or coverage from the middle east with subtitles?

How are we supposed to understand what they are saying in Arabic if CNN, ABC, NBC, FOX, and CBS do not bother to find out what these terrorists are saying in their native tonque.

That is how the MSM is getting away with their propaganda reports on Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

But as a guy with no life, I like long essays and video presentations. Ms Underestimated has posted an interesting video from Glenn Beck on Headline News. It shows the two faced nature of mostly the Iranian President but also covers many other……

Ah forget it, let’s talk about something liberas DO unserstand: Like, ohmygod, Britney Spears is like TOTALLY awesome for dumping K-Fed!

Tony737 on November 16, 2006 at 5:13 PM

I don’t think much of Britany.

I enjoy jazz singers, male or female. I prefer classically trained singers, including Cecilia Bartoli, Sarah Brightman, and actress-singer (vocalist) Emmy Russum – Christine in the movie version of Andrew Lloyd Weber’s “Phantom of the Opera,” or Placido Domingo, and others.

Actresses? I enjoy actresses from China, India, etc., such as Kajol from India – Bollywood movies, or Gong Li and others from China.

Britany’s behavior, and her choices of mates reveals a serious lack of good judgement.

Poor, poor Britany.

William

As you may know, Beck got his start in radio by winning a contest.

At 13 years of age and he’s been doing it since. Do you really think he’s stupid, honora, or does he frighten you with his scary words? Is he like the evil genius Bushitler or is he more the bumbling Chimperor sort of guy?

Ah forget it, let’s talk about something liberas DO unserstand: Like, ohmygod, Britney Spears is like TOTALLY awesome for dumping K-Fed!

From Nov 14

BECK: Once he [Hitler] was through with the babies, the elderly were next. As it has been said over and over again with tragedies regarding the Holocaust: never again. So, when you see politicians making statements like this one yesterday –

CLINTON [video clip]: But the whole issue of health care is coming back. That may be a bad dream for some, but for others, it’s a very welcome possibility, because we are on an unsustainable course. I think that we have to come up with a uniquely American solution.

BECK: OK. When you see statements like that, be afraid. Be very, very afraid. It’s not a bad dream for me; it is a nightmare. Hillary, thanks, but no thanks. 1993 wasn’t that long ago. I remember all too well that confused, nonsensical mess you tried to make of the greatest health care system in the world.

From Nov 15

BECK: A couple of months ago, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq urged his supporters to each kill at least one American in the next 15 days. It was a shocking statement, but hardly surprising.

Then, just a few days later, I came across a response to that message of hate that was surprising. It said, “You hid in your caves and behind the faces of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. You have abandoned God and have started worshipping your own satanic egos that rejoice at the killing of innocent people.”

Why do I say that statement, something that many of us agree with, is surprising? Because the man who wrote it is a Muslim. He lives right here in the United States.

As you may know, Beck got his start in radio by winning a contest. Kinda makes you wonder who the runners up were.

I’ll prefer being stupid and alive
soulsirkus on November 16, 2006 at 3:09 PM

By me.

Heh and that weird infomercial that followed it was disturbing. That broad looked like that strange doctor that kept giving every one shots in the movie Cannonball Run. And the guy who’s snake oil she was pitching looked like someone on the naughty list from Beck’s show.

Putting that aside, do you have anything constructive to add to discussion of the show? Did you even SEE the show? If not, the basic premise was this: Radical islamic extremists are teaching their kids to hate you and how to kill you and rule the world, and have been doing so for a thousand years. Your comment?

Yes we know, Bush is stupid, Glenn is stupid, all of us here are stupid. I’ll prefer being stupid and alive to being smart and dead any day genius!

soulsirkus on November 16, 2006 at 3:09 PM

Bush, whose college performance and IQ and aptitude out ranks Gore and Kerry is stupid, but they, with their outrageous behavior and idiotic sayings, are not stupid?

Bush, who risked his life strapping himself to a jet engine and flew a fighter jet, protecting our skies, is a “draft dodger,” while Kerry, who served four months is a “war hero.”

Kerry and Gore, and Pelosi, and others act like mental patients, eyes bugging, voices screaming and crackling, but they are never accused of being insane or crazy, but Bush is called a “liar” and more.

Who is truly stupid in all of this?

The inmates are running the asylum.

William

honora on November 16, 2006 at 10:44 AM

Yes we know, Bush is stupid, Glenn is stupid, all of us here are stupid. I’ll prefer being stupid and alive to being smart and dead any day genius!

Is there a stupider person on television than Glenn Beck? Are there no standards at all anymore?

honora on November 16, 2006 at 10:44 AM

The women at The View.

Keith Olberman.

David Letterman.

Bill Maher.

Chris Matthews.

Katie Courick

That is just a short list.

I suppose they get jobs on television because stupid people must have television shows to watch which have stupid hosts to parrot the pabulum of the looney toon fringe.

William

Keith was entertaining on Sportscenter, but that was a loooong time ago. So, he’s doing a better job of pulling up the rear now?

Pablo on November 16, 2006 at 2:01 PM

See below: in the money demo, Keith is about 70% of O’R, he has been picking up quite a bit.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/default.asp

In total numbers, O’R beats him more soundly as O’R has big numbers in the over 70 demo. (Go figure, huh?)