Poll: Hillary beats Rudy in New York State — by 14 points
posted at 3:23 pm on November 15, 2006 by Allahpundit
Yeah, I know. Blue state, it’s early, etc.
Fourteen points, though? America’s mayor, on his home turf? McCain’s only five points worse head to head.
He leads the field among Republicans at the moment, but social cons, to the consternation of libertarians, may find him unacceptable. Hence the problem: he’s too blue to win in (some) red states and not blue enough to win in New York. Or is he? Philip Klein reminds us that Rudy’s main competition is as squishy as he is on issues like immigration and considerably squishier when it comes to, say, campaign finance reform. Red staters might hold their noses when they go to pull the lever, but they’ll pull it.
He’s already picked up one endorsement from a pro-life, anti-gay-rights conservative. Writes Debbie Schlussel:
I’ll take the guy who I know will have the guts to do what Bush does not. I believe Giuliani is that man. He’s proven that time and again, whether it was when he told terror-supporting Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal to take his $10 million and shove it (right after 9/11) or when he severely restricted Yasser Arafat’s travel in New York (kicking him out of a concert).
Guts.
Or, if you prefer, balls.
Update: This essay just got picked up at FR:
When it’s all said and done, what will be left standing before us is a liberal New York politician with just enough common sense to know terrorists who blow up our buildings are evil, but not enough to know that Partial Birth Abortion is wrong. We can and must do better. Rudy Giuliani’s supporters are urging us to vote for the myth, but our country must live with the man.
Update: Explore John McCain! Every nook and cranny.
Blowback
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Best. Clip. Ever.
lorien1973 on November 15, 2006 at 3:27 PM
I don’t get the love affair with Giuliani among some conservatives. He’s NOT conservative. Sure he came out firing after 9/11. It was his own city that was attacked.
It shows he’s not stupid, but it doesn’t mean he’s Reagan.
Here on this blog we see conservative’s heads exploding in anger over immigration issues and Giuliani is just as bad as Bush on that topic.
Do we never learn?
Gregor on November 15, 2006 at 3:29 PM
Best clip. Ever. EVER.
seejanemom on November 15, 2006 at 3:29 PM
What is wrong with you? The body of the last election is still warm and your quoting a poll that shows a Democrat ahead of a Republican and scratching your head? Geesh! Give it time!
Jim-Rose on November 15, 2006 at 3:33 PM
Would someone please ask the boss to do a voice over and dub in the Bleep!
Dread Pirate Roberts VI on November 15, 2006 at 3:34 PM
Better yet, I would like to see Freekin’ Boo Hoo and Balls edited in the same clip! PRICELESS!
Dread Pirate Roberts VI on November 15, 2006 at 3:35 PM
Not to mention that NY also voted for Kerry soon after being the giant X on the target. Do we really care what a poll shows in NY? Do we care who San Francisco votes for?
Gregor on November 15, 2006 at 3:38 PM
God I love that picture of Hillary. She looks like Harpo from the Marx Brothers. Can you just embed that picture in sidebar? Or we could put in on a t-shirt that says “NEVER my president.”
Jiggity on November 15, 2006 at 3:40 PM
Jiggity, I’d buy one, except that I’d hate to have her face on my chest.
AtomicAmish on November 15, 2006 at 3:42 PM
That’s one thing I find just baffling about Rudy, given that he was such a strong proponent of the broken windows theory when he was mayor of NYC. Doesn’t he realize that allowing continued lawlessness on the border will lead to it elsewhere, just as lawlessness in the boroughs led to more crime in NYC before he cleaned it up?
I want to like the guy, but that’s just a bit too much of a hurdle to jump for me.
He really needs to rethink his position on gun control too – as does Mitt Romney.
thirteen28 on November 15, 2006 at 3:43 PM
It depends on what 14-points is.
SouthernGent on November 15, 2006 at 3:45 PM
…could it just be that he’s a trifle over-exposed.
…although he’s not *NEARLY* as over-exposed as McCain seems to wanna be….
Puritan1648 on November 15, 2006 at 3:47 PM
That is not as big a deal when you figure he isn’t a CONSERVATIVE….snortsnort….and more like a RINO…
seejanemom on November 15, 2006 at 3:48 PM
…that pic of Hillary…less like Harpo Marx…more like a goldfish…about to spit….
Puritan1648 on November 15, 2006 at 3:51 PM
New York is a lost cause if the people vote for Her Thighness ahead of Rudy. Talk about ingratitude.
16-18 months until the primaries, so let’s see where we are then. The less I see of her face, the better.
More Michelle, a lot less Hillary.
JammieWearingFool on November 15, 2006 at 3:52 PM
What rights that gays have does she oppose?
Stephen M on November 15, 2006 at 3:53 PM
The GOP has got to see the Hlldebeast as a force to reckon with in the next two years,this is her one shot at getting back in the WH with little Billy in tow.I wish I were more secure that GW,Rove and the whole bunch of them actually had a plan to stifle her ambitions, but their actions of the last few weeks do not bode well.
bbz123 on November 15, 2006 at 3:54 PM
I think there was a poll back a few months that had Rudy ahead of Hillary by a few points. Meh it will probably change a lot.
I think conservatives are just starving for real leadership that can win. And that’s Rudy like it or not. Gay marriage and abortion are back seat issues during this time. But as mentioned, illegal immigration could be bad, but then so is MCcain and there is no other Republican that has a chance to win. Conservatives love Newt, but he has no chance.
V15J on November 15, 2006 at 3:56 PM
I like Debbie Schlussel and I love Rudy–she’s right. He’s got the guts, b*lls, whatever to really lead this country in wartime! I’m in.
We’re not going to get another RR between now and 2008. Besides, only Reagan can be Reagan and he’s in Heaven (*sniff*), it’s time for a new generatoin of leadership in the GOP and White House, but the White House is a Hillbillary-free zone now and forever, especially since they’ve already looted it of anything they liked in 2001.
Jen the Neocon on November 15, 2006 at 3:56 PM
Neither McCain nor Guiliani will get the nomination. We all know GOP voters are moving even more to the right following their defeat, and having to watch Schumer kill conservative nominees to SCOTUS in committee is just going to get them that much more fired, and hence that much more suicidal, politically speaking.
Gingrich, Romney, Brownback, maybe even Tancredo (No, Dems just aren’t that lucky). Throw in Jeb Bush on the Vice Presidential slot and you’ve got a formula for a Democratic landslide. No one in this country wants to see another Bush in the White House for at least a decade.
Grebrook on November 15, 2006 at 3:57 PM
I always questions polls ever since I was asked, “The governmnet has a right to interfere with what a woman does with her own body.
Do you:
Strongly agree
Agree
Somewhat agree
Disagree or
Strongly disagree
Polls are NEVER stacked.
By the way, wasn’t she already president for two terms?
Paladin on November 15, 2006 at 3:58 PM
Stephen,she is against “special protection” clauses for gays.
bbz123 on November 15, 2006 at 3:59 PM
I beg to differ on both counts.
Gregor on November 15, 2006 at 4:00 PM
What other national figure do the republicans have besides Rudy and McCain. It’s only 2 years afterall.
lorien1973 on November 15, 2006 at 4:01 PM
Grebrook -
Do you actually think anyone takes anything you say seriously? You’re wasting your time in here with your nonsense.
Gregor on November 15, 2006 at 4:01 PM
…more to the point, what rights do homosexuals *LACK* that the rest of us have?
They can vote…now, thanks to the Supreme Court, they can bugger eachother senseless, and that’s their business. They can marry…just the same as the rest of us. Bravo!
Now…they aren’t getting their way on their Christmas list of special rights and protections fulfilled, but they’ve certainly got all the rights the rest of us have.
…must not be enough to be a citizen…they want uber-citizen status, I suppose….
…have to admit, though…so do I…vote twice…marry either whoever…er…or *WHATEVER* I want. Marry a Holstein heifer…they have such big, pretty eyes.
…they also have trouble being taken seriously by and retaining divorce lawyers…so, when you’re done with ‘em, you can render ‘em into a freezer of steaks and assorted stew meats. Society frowns taking that tack in divorce today…generally….
Puritan1648 on November 15, 2006 at 4:02 PM
I really believe that the people of the US are over this Bush – Clinton era for the last/upcoming 18-20 years. Also, remember the below par first lady effect (in this case – 1st dude) that nailed Kerry in 2004 with his idiot wife. I think most would think twice to give Bill another chance to live in the White House again. Funny to think that Bill could be the factor preventing Harpo from becoming President. This could all be wrong…I am still felling faint from the Trent Lott return.
Jiggity on November 15, 2006 at 4:04 PM
This is depressing. The Republican party needs to step-back, roll-up its sleeves, develope a conservative platform. It’s time to go back to the drawing board. We need conservative candidates, not RINO retreads.
I do not doubt that Rudy has ‘balls’, it’s his positions and his record of governance that disturb me. Rudy and McCain aren’t conservative and they both have too much baggage to win.
gmaninatl on November 15, 2006 at 4:04 PM
People in New York remember Rudy before he became the patron saint of 9/11. He did a great job cleaning up the city but had some bad, bad press with his marital situation, and also his handling of some NYPD “over zealous” incidents–the infamous broomstick thing and the fellow who shot 30 some times on his own doorstoop.
Can’t believe the Republicans would go for him, he is not by any stretch of the imagination conservative.
honora on November 15, 2006 at 4:06 PM
People love Rudy because he cleaned up New York City. Maybe they figure he will clean up the middle east. I’d vote for him I thought he could do that.
bloggless on November 15, 2006 at 4:11 PM
Guys, chill! This is Dhimm behavior to opine on whom we can run for the Oval Office in ’08.
I personally don’t want to go over every pecadillo of every possible candidate for the next 2 years…we’ll all turn into Chris Matthews, I swear.
People we have Dhimms to deal with, Dems in majorities, for pity’s sake!
We need to get busy with corralling them little doggies.
We will find a good candidate. Those of you who are practicing Christians and Jews, pray for the Lord to send us the Right person to lead America (…away from Hillary) and into the bright future.
Jen the Neocon on November 15, 2006 at 4:12 PM
Great post AP. I very much enjoyed reading the essay from Adam Graham.
People should not support Guiliani just because he was a good leader when he was forced to be. Bottom line.
What happens when he is afforded the opportunity; that is the real question. Will he choose to be a great leader even when it is not popular? Will he fight Islamo-fascists or will we find he is only good at sifting through rubble? Personally, I don’t want to find out.
Cary on November 15, 2006 at 4:20 PM
Let’s just hope the 2008 elections come before the 12th Iman arrives.
Checkpoint Charlie on November 15, 2006 at 4:28 PM
Well, as has been mentioned several times here, Guiliani cleaned up NYC. It needed it badly, but I wouldn’t call that “forced” and I would call it leadership.
Nevertheless, he’s kind of liberal for my tastes.
kmcguire on November 15, 2006 at 4:38 PM
Thanks for condensing the extended clip to the essentials.
On to the rest of the post:
- The only way the Pubbies would come close to carrying New York is if Rudy were to take on, say, David Clarke (Milwaukee County, Wisconsin sheriff who, realizing that the parties in Wisconsin have no direct ability to ensure those who run under their banner actually belong to the party, and realizing that there is a LOT of straight-Dem-ticket voting here, ran as a “Dem”). I’ll leave it to the rest of you to decide whether it’s Clarke’s relative conservatism on most issues (he rather-vocally supported Bush in 2000 and 2004, the latter while serving as the “Dem” sheriff), his geography, or how much of a tan he has that would cost him New York against a New Yorker.
- That Rudy and John S. McShame (RINO-Media) are the frontrunners for the Pubbie nomination shows that there are no conservatives near the top of power in the Republican Party.
steveegg on November 15, 2006 at 4:42 PM
John McCain will NEVER win the Republican nomination.
I guarantee that. He would be more qualified to win the DEMOCRATIC nomination.
Gregor on November 15, 2006 at 4:46 PM
Cary,
Well, his approval was at 30% when 9/11 happened, though New York had flourished under his leadership.
Does that answer the question? If it doesn’t, ask the Mafia what they think.
Pablo on November 15, 2006 at 4:55 PM
America’s mayor is to the LEFT of McCain on most issues. Habla espanol?
Valiant on November 15, 2006 at 5:01 PM
Neither McCain or Rudy will ever get the vote of anyone who’s at all pro-gun. Their records are too long and too obvious.
The Dems are unlikely to field a candidate with a good 2A record either so 2008 would be a great time for a third party to pick up several million votes. Add in a tough stance on the borders and a couple of other issues and it gets interesting…
KCSteve on November 15, 2006 at 5:01 PM
Pablo,
Very good point. However, I was addressing all those who like him based solely on his 9/11 performance. That is just silly in my opinion.
I’m glad he cleaned up crime in NYC. I just don’t know… from mayor straight to President might be a bit of a stretch. I don’t dislike the guy though, I just think he is a Democrat.
When push comes to shove, if that is what this is, then YES I would vote for Guiliani if he will engage our enemies as though we are actually at war. I will vote for any candidate that takes Islamo-fascists seriously and acts on it accordingly. By “seriously” I mean kill as many of them as he can as fast as he can regardless of politics. Win the war.
Know what else would make me vote for Guiliani? McCain.
Cary on November 15, 2006 at 5:04 PM
NY doesn’t win the election. Lets watch as Guiliani carries California, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Texas!
@Gregor
Dead on. McCain will never win the republican nomination. He is a traitor to the base with his border & terror detainee crap. I will never vote for him.
msipes on November 15, 2006 at 5:09 PM
Poll: Hillary beats Rudy in New York State — by 14 points
Devil’s Advocate (hey, I realize AP won’t like this take)
If the nitwits in NYC, and they control the NY state electorate, don’t care if they get hit by another terrorist attack, then why should we?
Hey I don’t want to see Wall Street take another dive, and I don’t want to see more American casualties.
However, New York City voters evidently don’t get it. The terrorists aren’t planning their next strike by attacking the hinterlands.
So, if you live in the city and you’re not a HRC sycophant, MOVE.
Otherwise, the rest of us don’t give a shit.
there it is on November 15, 2006 at 5:17 PM
I will not vote for someone who is pro-abortion. Rudy was a great mayor in most difficult time, but as long as he allow the Godless left to murder unborn children, he’ll never get my vote.
RightWired on November 15, 2006 at 5:36 PM
Or, maybe we could call them “Malkins”. As in “those Dhimmicrats don’t have the Malkins to do what needs to be done!!”
BigOrangeAxe on November 15, 2006 at 5:46 PM
Or, maybe we could call them “Malkins”. As in “those Dhimmicrats don’t have the Malkins to do what needs to be done!!”
BigOrangeAxe on November 15, 2006 at 5:46 PM
LOL You a funny man!
sonnyspats1 on November 15, 2006 at 5:56 PM
Rudy will get thumped by Hillary like Bob Dole was thumped by Billy.
And Rudy will take a lot of GOP down with him.
Labamigo on November 15, 2006 at 6:10 PM
I will be soft forever, never to be hard again, for the rest of my life after seeing Hillary in that picture.. !
retired on November 15, 2006 at 6:15 PM
I would only vote Rudy if Newt was there as either the front runner or running-mate. I’d rather Newt be the front-runner though.
NTWR on November 15, 2006 at 6:41 PM
Currently, only Newt is conservative enough to satisfy the majority of Republicans. McCain is a libertarians wet dream, but he will never make it to the White house. Rudy spent too much time supporting Bush.
Hitlary energizes Republicans to vote for anyone except for her, and if Hitlarycare makes the scene again I believe we could see a repeat of the 94 election cycle.
DannoJyd on November 15, 2006 at 7:21 PM
You’re right Danno- if people were upset at the Medicare spending, wait until the numbers on her version come out- it’s in the $trillions!
NTWR on November 15, 2006 at 7:24 PM
I just hope that the liberals are so full of themselves that they give Hitlarycare a try again. That will be when I shall be LMAO!
DannoJyd on November 15, 2006 at 7:29 PM
What makes a successful mayor in NYC rarely translates to the whole nation. Rudy is a capable leader, but he’s a RINO. And if this last election has told us anything, its that core conservative values win, and Rudy is short on those values. I like him, but I wouldn’t trust him to defend conservative values.
Iblis on November 15, 2006 at 7:32 PM
Bottom line, I’m for any candidate that can keep Hillary Clinton out of the oval office now and forever.
Mark V. on November 15, 2006 at 8:11 PM
lblis
What you call a RINO is what I call a Republican from the Republican wing of the Republican party. Social conservatives are the real RINO’s here, IMO, with a political/legislative agenda that does not, in fact, issue naturally from Reagen conservatism, or political conservatism generally, at all. The Republican party is simply the vehicle they’ve been driving.
JM Hanes on November 16, 2006 at 3:55 AM
We will see some version of national health care in the next 15 or so years. Count on it. Know why? Two big, big constituencies are slowly embracing it: business (what do you think the big 3 domestic auto guys were talking to Bush about earlier this week?) and the medical establishment.
Before you start going nuts on how the government cannot be involved in delivering quality, affordable health care, do a little research on the Vets hospital situation.
honora on November 16, 2006 at 1:21 PM
I would go further than that–the notion of the govt being pro or con on the social issues that are the usual suspects in this discussion is at odds with classic conservatism. So the question becomes: who has been fooling whom?
honora on November 16, 2006 at 1:24 PM
honora:
I’d have gone even further myself, but decided on a shot across the bow first.
Even if an ever expanding social agenda were not antithetical to traditional conservatism, pushing legislative solutions at the federal, rather than state and local, levels is a fundamentally liberal approach.
JM Hanes on November 16, 2006 at 4:15 PM