No offense but how many arrests have you made?

I am retired Law Enforcement and can tell you that watching the video is very deceiving.

Did you know they just finished a foot pursuit?

Having made 1000 of arrests I can tell you that your remarks are naive. Until you have been in the fight of your life with one of these scumbags you have no idea how hard it is to get them handcuffed even with two guys on top of him.

This guy is a prior offender. They practice in prison and on outside with their gang buds on how to take officers guns and resist arrest. They have it down to science.

I am currently permanently disabled as the result of a fight with a gang banger very similar to one on tape. He attacked my female partner and almost broke her neck. I had to break his ribs and throw his head into the concrete to get him to stop and finally handcuff him. After his visit to the hospital, it was found that he had a large amount of speed and alcohol in his system.

I got two herniated discs out of the deal. My partner is disabled with cervical discs cracked and herniated and has not worked since.

The doctors said he probably felt no pain and had enormous strength from the speed

Until you walk in the shoes of the cops that risk their lives everyday, I suggest you stop making arm chair snap judgments on a video clip that has been edited to make the perp look good.

A court watched the whole tape and concluded they used justifiable force.

I agree with what you say about fighting suspects (especially 10%-ers) and going for a cops sidearm. But from what’s shown he doesn’t even come close to touching the sidearm until after he’s punched.

If you pause the video and study the footage the other cop’s hand is controlling the suspect’s right wrist and stays between the suspect’s hand and the first cop’s sidearm.

There may have been other factors that aren’t shown on the clip, but we’re asked to go with what we see. And as a cop and a Use of Force expert there is no reason for the punches.

Also, in my opinion, the love taps he gave the suspect were a total waste of time. All they did was make the suspect react more, possibly putting the two of them in greater danger.

I know, I know, we’re all armchair-quarterbacking this and we weren’t there. But I do honestly believe that the cop who punched the suspect was wrong… for more than just Use of Force reasons. His energy would have been better spent if he had used both of his hands on one of the suspect’s arms and the second cop taking the suspect’s other arm.

Having been in similar situations (wrestling/fighting a suspect on the ground) I know first hand that there is no easy answer. You take stuff and react as it happens. I just think the punches were stupid and un-needed.

Again, just my opinion based on 19 seconds of video. I’ll be happy to re-evaluate if the whole video ever airs.

~V5

Btw, for those complaining they shouldn’t have hit him becuase he hadn’t actualy pulled the gun out of the holster… once you touch that cops gun the situation has escalated into a lethal force incident. At least in Virginia, and I’m sure in many other states as well. Going for a cop’s gun is a statement of intent that you intend to kill the officer.

Here’s the video, posted at Hot Air. Go watch it and see what all of the fuss is about. All nineteen seconds of it. Before you jump on the bandwagon and crucify these officers, consider the following: 1. The tape…

No. Spangdahlem. 90 Mins away.

Look at the biceps.

Those were controlled love taps to the perp’s forehead in an effort to take the piss and vinegar out of him.

If a man that size really wanted to inflict brutality, the perp’s face would be unrecognizable and probably in a cast today with jaw pins and a frame.

As to the fact that one cuff is on, I’ve been in that situation, there are people who will suddenly try anything necessary to escape being arrested and they can go into that fight or flight adrenaline thing at any time during the apprehension.

Monday morning quarterbacking these situations is the sport of fools and is pretty much useless stuff.

I’d personally like to see the reactions and level of violence of those who cry brutality if THEY were in that situation, now that would be the entertainment of the century.

.

Nothing takes away your repect for pepper spray like being hit with it then running an obstacle course. ~SnakeintheGrass

AMEN!!

I’ll tell you something else I hate about pepper spray. NEVER NEVER NEVER spray a suspect, wrestle the suspect to the ground, handcuff and (finally) arrest the suspect, and then after transporting to (and processing at) the county jail take a leak. BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU FOR SURE you never got all the pepper spray off your fingers before grabbing your unit to take said leak. And that burns like PURE FIRE! LOL True story.

~V5

I can say one thing for certain: If you are/want to be a cop, stay the hell away from the 9th circut in general and LA in particular. There is no easier place to get screwed over.

That’s the problem. The officers get no support, so they pull back from doing their jobs as effectively. Then we’re at the mercy of criminals. Libs frown on self defense as well.

1. Stun guns work until they stop sending out juice. They have no lingering effects, meaning someone who was just hit with one can immideately jump up and continue to fight. The ones that give up are the ones afraid of being hit again.
2. Pepper spray is all but worthless. It is just as likely to be a detriment to the officer and dosent do much to hinder your ability to fight. I know from experience. Nothing takes away your repect for pepper spray like being hit with it then running an obstacle course.

From what I have seen on the video there seemed to be no provocation for the punches. What we don’t know is what was going through the officer’s mind. The suspect had obviously been struggling and, even with two officers on him, refused to comply.

It DOES NOT matter what the suspect did even 30 seconds earlier.

I am going to have to disagree with you on that. If the suspect had already gone for the officers gun once before it would naturally leave him jumpy about the guy going for it again.

I can say one thing for certain: If you are/want to be a cop, stay the hell away from the 9th circut in general and LA in particular. There is no easier place to get screwed over.

That would be funny.

If the guy was going for the officer’s gun, he should have the crap beat out of him.

At the very least.

For the record, that was a joke and I’m a military cop for the Air Force.

Ramstein, by chance?

The cop on the left has enough control to hold him down and GRAB HIS RADIO TO RADIO IN THAT THEY HAVE HIM.

Is he on the radio saying, “we have him, no worries”, or is he trying to let the dispatcher know precisely where they are and that they might need help (we have him, but he’s causing trouble)? I couldn’t hear what he said, if he had time to actually say anything. Could you?

1. At the VERY BEGINNING of this clip the suspect’s right hand is already in 1/2 of a set of handcuffs that are controlled by the officer astride his abdomen.

2. The police officer (astride the suspect’s abdomen) is gripping the other half of the handcuffs and has his own hand between the suspect’s hand and the second officer’s firearm.

3. The suspect’s hand NEVER comes close to the second officer’s firearm UNTIL AFTER he has been struck in the face.

I realize that this is only a small clip of the actual event. However, as a former cop (and a court recognized Use of Force expert) I am appalled at the second officer’s actions.

Regardless of what happend in the 5 to 10 minutes prior to what appears in this clip, the second officer has moral and (more importantly in this case) a legal obligation to properly deescalate his use of force. All cops are trained in the Use of Force Continuum and when they’re allowed to escalate and when they must, I say again, MUST, deescalate

Let me put that in plain English. It DOES NOT matter what the suspect did even 30 seconds earlier. When the suspect stops, so most the cop. From what I saw the suspect did not attempt to grab the sidearm and that hand was already in a handcuff that was being controlled by the other officer. That cop had ZERO REASONS to strike the suspect like that.

Was he still struggling? Yes, he was, but at that point the cops should have used pain compliance techniques (like a wrist lock) and not multiple strikes to the suspect’s face.

At the very least that cop deserves a 2 week suspension, without pay. Just my opinion. And for the record! I’m not some lef twing-nut-job-anti cop-liberal. I am a fairly conservative former soldier and cop.

Also, so people know:

1. Choke holds are generally forbidden by most departments. Except in cases of life and death. A knee to the neck/throat is not a choke hold.

2. If the suspect can shout out (several times), ‘I can’t breathe,’ then he’s lying. You can’t talk without breathing.

3. Use of Force strikes to the face are usually not very effective. Except for a very quick strike to the nose in order to break it, and bring a fighting suspect quickly to his knees. Usually used by a cop that is much smaller than the suspect in a toe-to-toe fight.

4. Pain Compliance techniques are usually much more effective than actually striking the suspect.

5. The cop in the video hits like a girl. No offense to any girls intended.

~V5

Gee, another White Guy who sees nothing wrong kneeing a suspect in the throat until he can’t breathe and then smashing him in the face FIVE times, go figure.

As many others have said, if you can say “I can’t breathe”, then you CAN BREATHE.

It’s very, very, very simple.

And if you have children or any loved ones, look for blue faces to see if someone’s choking, instead of waiting for them to tell you something they’d never be able to truthfully voice.

Guys, watch the punching officer’s arm closely right from the time the clip starts. You will see that he is putting most of his weight, not on the guy’s neck, but on restraining his arm. Yet the arm is not on the ground, in spite of the officer’s weight. After the officer punches him 3 times he uses both arms to control the suspect’s left arm and he still can’t ground the suspect’s hand.

This means two things:
a. the suspect is very strong,
b. the suspect is using all his strength to resist.

Aylios on November 13, 2006 at 1:15 PM

Gee, another White Guy who sees nothing wrong kneeing a suspect in the throat until he can’t breathe and then smashing him in the face FIVE times, go figure.

Even if appropriate force ends up being shown, LA is a great place for jackpot lawsuits. They just paid out $2.7 million to a black firefighter claiming racial harrassment when his fellow firefighters put a couple of pieces of dog food in his spaghetti after a volleyball game where the (6’5″) guy kept yelling “Feed it to the Big Dog! Feed it to the Big Dog!…” A prank among co-workers? Nope. Racial bias trying to create a hostile environment to drive black firefighters out of their jobs.

I don’t even need to go into what the drill will be here.

I don’t know where they got that idea.