Rumsfeld to be sued in Germany for war crimes

posted at 2:57 pm on November 10, 2006 by Allahpundit

The nutroots will delight at the irony of Germans sitting in judgment of American hawks at a war-crimes trial. Will anyone else?

A few points.

1. Time is claiming its story is an exclusive. Really? Then how’d it end up on the Blotter yesterday morning?

2. Am I misreading the story or is Drudge? His headline says, “Germany to pursue criminal prosecution of Rumsfeld over prison abuse.” From the article:

Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany’s top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba…

Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld’s spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a “a big, big problem.” U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

Sounds like they’re petitioning the German government to prosecute, but whether it ultimately will or not is up to the powers that be and hasn’t been decided yet. Also, why would they prosecute this time if they opted not to do so two years ago? Rumsfeld logically has less of an immunity defense now than he did in 2004, so “U.S. authorities and courts” should be even better able to deal with him today.

And just as I finish typing that last sentence, I see Drudge has removed the red font and rewritten the headline to say “Germany may pursue criminal prosecution.” Super.

3. The key point: if the left thinks its acquiescence in a sovereignty grab by European powers will redound to its electoral advantage, then I fervently urge them to follow their inclinations. The only people who’d be happier than the nutroots to see Rumsfeld led away by German police is the Republican National Committee.

Speaking of Rumsfeld and electoral advantages, I’ll leave you with this. Weep:

President Bush was moving by late summer toward removing Donald H. Rumsfeld as defense secretary, people inside and outside the White House said Thursday. Weeks before Election Day, the essential question still open was when, not whether, to make the move…

The delay in Mr. Rumsfeld’s departure was painful for some Republicans, who have argued that his continued presence in the administration was politically counterproductive. Some complained Thursday that the resignation had come too late to be any help during an election in which Mr. Rumsfeld became a whipping boy for Democratic, and eventually some Republican, candidates.

Exit question: by the logic of the chickenhawk argument, doesn’t this mean Rumsfeld should stay?

Blowback

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Science H. Logic!

What’s striking to me are the charges.

Per the article linked on Drudge:
Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques

Since when did humiliation become a war crime?
Thugs do worse every day on the streets of Philadelphia!

budorob on November 10, 2006 at 3:05 PM

Trying to out think the media as to what it will say regarding firing Rumsfeld makes you lose elections, dear White House.

They would have said all that regardless of the timing.

SouthernGent on November 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM

if the left thinks its acquiescence in a sovereignty grab by European powers will redound to its electoral advantage, then I fervently urge them to follow their inclinations.

Exactly. Same deal with Mexico petitioning the World Court to force us to leave the border open. It’d be too good to be true.

Alex K on November 10, 2006 at 3:08 PM

I would like to see Pelosi comment on this. I’d like to see the country come together and send a resounding **** ***! to those pushing for prosecution. Oh, wait, some of the people pushing for this are actually Americans from our own country. Oh, and some of these people ready to testify against Rumsfeld are our own soldiers. I’d like to see the concept of loyalty to country brought back into the public sphere. It’s about time more people get arrested for treason in the US. What’s next? Jello Biafra replacing John Bolton?

Darrin on November 10, 2006 at 3:08 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

Too true! LOL. Defaming the entire concept of “prisoner abuse” perhaps.

lorien1973 on November 10, 2006 at 3:09 PM

#3. Great point.

Cary on November 10, 2006 at 3:09 PM

Well I haven’t been buying and Burgundy wine lately, guess I can also put snitzel on the list.

I don’t believe that Merkel would let this stand. They are fighting us tooth and nail to keep troops there to help their economy.

Limerick on November 10, 2006 at 3:10 PM

I don’t think it’s the German government but rather some disgruntled former prisoners who are looking to file charges.

They basically court shopped and chose Germany because of “universal jurisdiction” or some crap.

I like the copyright infringement joke however. That was a good one.

Rosetta on November 10, 2006 at 3:15 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?
Too true! LOL. Defaming the entire concept of “prisoner abuse” perhaps.

lorien1973 on November 10, 2006 at 3:09 PM

No kidding!

Germany suing US?

This from the country that brought the world Hitler (who, although Austrian, couldn’t get folks to follow him like he could – and did in good old Germany), Himmler, Heydrich, the SS, Concentration Camps, and invented the Holocaust.

That Germany?

What a joke!

Apparently we didn’t use enough fire bombs during the last war – they’re still practising selective inbreeding!

Master Race of What – stupidy?

Enough said. Let’s pull our troops and see how long it will be before they become a part of Russia again.

Emmett J. on November 10, 2006 at 3:17 PM

From The Corner on NRO:

Old Europe’s Revenge [Michael Rubin]

It may be time for the US to close its military bases in Germany and shift them to Poland and the new East European democracies. They are far better allies and understand the importance of freedom and liberty.

My sentiments exactly.

thirteen28 on November 10, 2006 at 3:18 PM

#3 Wins the prize.

I would like to see the Germans lay one finger on Donald Rumsfeld.

The funny think is, this isn’t really even the Germans doing this. The plaintiffs are eleven Iraqis and the suspected 20th 9/11 highjacker, and it’s American moonbats who chose Germany for its broad warcrimes jurisdiction doing the lawyering

:”The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer,” says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany.

I se eJanis Karpinski will be testifying as well This basically looks like the same bunch of people who did that weirdo mock “impeachment hearing” in the Capitol.

see-dubya on November 10, 2006 at 3:22 PM

And the genesis of all of this Abu Gharib crap is the actions of 6 Army Reserve soldiers who decided to pursue their sexual perversions in Iraq. Thanks Lyndde England and James Grainer. Of course the officer who oversaw all of this the disgraced Janis Karpinski is siding with the prosecution on this case. Guess she is upset that Rummy had her busted and kicked out of the service.
Of course the NY Times who kept it on the front page for what, at least as long as the iranians held our citizens hostage under the great Jahmmy Carter deserves to take some credit also.

LakeRuins on November 10, 2006 at 3:22 PM

Have the Germans ever tried one of their own for being Nazis??? I think not.
Oh, no. We had to do it at Nuremberg and then the Israeli Mossad and professional, but private Nazi hunters like Simon Wiesenthal were on their own.
Hands off our Rummy, but you can keep Janis Karpinski!

Jen the Neocon on November 10, 2006 at 3:24 PM

Huh ?!?

A citizen of the USA being sued for an alleged crime in Iraq/Cuba to be tried in a court in Germany…

Venue shopping goes international, now elgeneralisimo has seen everything…

A related but unrelated link(with Nazis !!!)…http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/fall2006/rosenthal.html

elgeneralisimo on November 10, 2006 at 3:25 PM

they won’t even do it, spare me
the germans would have to get him into their state for that to happen
what? is the German Special Forces going to kidnapp Rumsfeld?

Defector01 on November 10, 2006 at 3:25 PM

Argh… hit the wrong button…

elgeneralisimo on November 10, 2006 at 3:26 PM

What’s next? Jello Biafra replacing John Bolton?

That could be a lot of fun. When he ran for Mayor of SF, Biafra wanted to establish a Board of Bribery to standardize the rates and get the deals out of the back rooms and into the open.

I could get behind a Biafra nomination…

rw on November 10, 2006 at 3:27 PM

SouthernGent:

“Trying to out think the media as to what it will say regarding firing Rumsfeld makes you lose elections, dear White House.

They would have said all that regardless of the timing.”

All the more reason to delay the announcement till after the election when it could be used to flat take the wind out of the Dem victory speeches (and were they speechless, or what?), to take back the initiative, and to let those who wish to do so read it as a change in course.

JM Hanes on November 10, 2006 at 3:29 PM

I’d like to ask another question about “allies”. Why is it exactly, that Germans can travel to the US and Polish people still can’t? Polish people are so pro-American…they’re more pro-American than half the Americans in America, and 100% more pro-American than the average German. Why is this? They are sacrificing a lot for this war to, and it’s kind of bad that they can’t even visit the US, but the French can. What is the rational behind this decision not to let them come? We treat our friend like enemies and allies like scum at times.

Darrin on November 10, 2006 at 3:30 PM

Screw those idiots, they can take their charges and put them where the sun doesn’t shine. What a bunch of brain dead jerks.

rplat on November 10, 2006 at 3:31 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

Befor the spin gets out of control…

Germany IS NOT suing us.

Some Islamo-fascist terrorist nut-jobs are trying to use German war crime jurisdiction laws to sue Rumsfeld.

They’re not going to get anywhere with it, but they are generating a lot of free MSM attention for their jihadi causes.

Lawrence on November 10, 2006 at 3:31 PM

Befor the spin gets out of control…

Germany IS NOT suing us.

I know, but I wasn’t below the hard deck for more than a few seconds, I had the shot, and I took it.

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:37 PM

Are we going to have to kick their ass a third time?

BirdEye on November 10, 2006 at 3:38 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM

lol….point, set, match!

quax1 on November 10, 2006 at 3:45 PM

I know, but I wasn’t below the hard deck for more than a few seconds, I had the shot, and I took it.

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:37 PM

And a good shot it was!

thirteen28 on November 10, 2006 at 3:45 PM

Tough jihadis, eh? What are they gonna think when we take off the gloves?

RedWinged Blackbird on November 10, 2006 at 3:49 PM

What are they gonna think when we take off the gloves?

I didnt realize we COULD remove them anymore.

lorien1973 on November 10, 2006 at 3:52 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM

see-dubya and Rosseta are getting close to what I think is going on here. see-dubya mentioned the NGO called “Center for Constitutional Rights” which is an NGO which I’ll allude to in a bit

I belive what these “progressives” are really doing is attempting to challenge the assumption that nationalism and liberal democracy and individual rights are the desired endstate.

Here is a link to a PDF document that does a much better job of explaining what it is that these NGOs and internationalists strive for. It is similar to what you will read in “The Gates of Vienna”, but more polished. But very, very good, and very, very revealing.

The article is called “Liberal Democracy vs Transnational Progressivism: The Future of Ideological Civil War Within the West”
Here is a teaser paragraph:

Indeed, to comply with the NGO [Center for Constitutional Rights] interpretation of the CERD (UN Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination) treaty, the United States would have to turn its political and economic system, together with their underlying principales, upside down – adbandoning the free speech guarantees of the Constitution, bypassing federalism, and ignoring the very concept of majority rule – since practically nothing in the NGO adenda is supported by the American electorate.

The NGOs at the Durban conference exemplify a new challenge to liberal democracy and its traditional home, the liberal democratic nation-state. THese have always been self-governign representative systems comprised of individual citizens who enjoy freedom and equality under law and together form a people within a democratic nation-state. Thus, liberal democracy means individual rights, democratic representation (with some form of majority rule) and national citizenship. Yet, as the vignettes of the Durban conference (and myriad other conflicts of the past four decades) demonstrate, all of these principals, along with the very idea of the liberal democratic nation-state, are contested today in the West, suggesting that we have not reached the “end of history” in the ideological sense delineated by Francis Fukuyama in his groundbreaking 1989 essay.

The essay is kinda long, but very worth it, as it pulls all sorts of disparate themes and actions together and explains them with one simple theory which seems to make sense.

And I think it explains pretty well what is happening in this case.

EFG on November 10, 2006 at 3:52 PM

Opps. I meant to say “Heh” after the quote from Token. Sorry Token. That was a good one.

EFG on November 10, 2006 at 3:53 PM

The blood letting has commenced.

seejanemom on November 10, 2006 at 3:55 PM

Germany’s suing us over prisoner abuse? For what, copyright infringement?

token on November 10, 2006 at 3:06 PM

LOL!!!

honora on November 10, 2006 at 3:56 PM

This is what you get when you elect American hating democrats.

William Amos on November 10, 2006 at 3:58 PM

(Studio) West German commandos rescue hostages held by hijackers of Lufthansa jet at Mogadishu, Somalia, airport. 3 of 4 hijackers are killed and West German officials report that 3 urban guerrillas, whose release from prison was condition of release of hostages, have committed suicide.
1977……CBS News

I want an investigation RIGHT NOW on how these prisoners suddenly committed suicide.

Limerick on November 10, 2006 at 3:58 PM

What are they gonna think when we take off the gloves?

I didnt realize we COULD remove them anymore.

In five years there will be no more talk of detainee rights or the Geneva Convention – only of crushing the global jihad. I need more ammo.

RedWinged Blackbird on November 10, 2006 at 4:02 PM

Sure hope Turkmany won’t be needing our help anytime soon.

Sweet Dreams Hansel.

Teddy on November 10, 2006 at 4:17 PM

Our favorite firecracker has a good post about this on her other blog.

Anton on November 10, 2006 at 4:17 PM

What a load of horse sh!t.

I don’t care what end of the political spectrum you hang off of: if you think having a foreign government investigate / prosecute our nation’s leaders / former leaders is a good idea just because you don’t agree with their views, you haven’t got two brain cells to rub together — which is why I’m sure the Dixie Chicks and Cindy Shehan will be all for it.

p.s. I concur — #3 wins the award :^)

db on November 10, 2006 at 4:18 PM

Maybe WE should sue Europe for being pantywaists. Class-action laswsuit, anyone?

robblefarian on November 10, 2006 at 4:26 PM

If you read down into the Time magazine article, you’ll see this:

“The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer,” says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany.

The Center for Consitutional Rights is a grantee of Soros’ Open Society Institute.

The article also reminds us that the Germans have already addressed this issue and rejected any such prosecution:

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld’s resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor’s reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

TexasRainmaker on November 10, 2006 at 4:27 PM

The only people who’d be happier than the nutroots to see Rumsfeld led away by German police is the Republican National Committee.

Really? I mean that’s what I’d like to believe, but I don’t have the greatest perspective on these types of things. I’m a little pessimistic right now.

It’s been a rough week!

Esthier on November 10, 2006 at 4:35 PM

I’d rather sue Germans for not taking baths/showers. Talk about torture…!

SouthernGent on November 10, 2006 at 5:17 PM

I hate to quote myself, but as I said about this issue in another thread, Germany can kiss the hairiest part of my ass. As can anyone else that supports this lawsuit.

ReubenJCogburn on November 10, 2006 at 5:27 PM

EFG, that John Fonte essay on Transnational Progressivism as well as Stephen den Beste’s essay on Jacksonian Democrats are both in the WOT Hall of Fame and Required Reading for any pajama ninjas!

Jen the Neocon on November 10, 2006 at 5:36 PM

Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques

so he was forced to watch a gay pride parade?

Canadian Imperialist Running Dog on November 10, 2006 at 5:46 PM

EFG, that John Fonte essay on Transnational Progressivism as well as Stephen den Beste’s essay on Jacksonian Democrats are both in the WOT Hall of Fame and Required Reading for any pajama ninjas!

Jen, you read my mind.

This is a political gift. What the GOP needs to do is propose a law punishing any nation that indicts, prosecutes, or arrests any American gov’t official or soldier for anything they have done in service to the United States. The Dems will be screwed. Either the American people will be pissed at them or the nutroots. Seriously, what a gift. We should send them a card.

Second, the Bush administration should float a move of all US troops to Poland. Then, with Poland’s persmission, we should build a 20 lane superhighway between the Belorussian and German border lined with mines. Then we should get the Polish to give the Russians fly over rights, of course with the promise of American protection. Da s’vadanya western Europe.

Bill C on November 10, 2006 at 5:54 PM

Cheers, Bill!
Dazvadanya, Western Europe? don’t you mean EUrabia?
Very sad and very scary, but welcome to the real world.

Jen the Neocon on November 10, 2006 at 5:58 PM

Bill, remember what happened at the Gates of Vienna on Sept. 12, 1683.
I can assure you that neither the Poles nor the jihadis have forgotten.

Jen the Neocon on November 10, 2006 at 6:02 PM

Hey, how bout that globalist expansion?
Not only do you get screwed from free trade but now you can get screwed from global free litigation too.

Speakup on November 10, 2006 at 6:16 PM

Bill, remember what happened at the Gates of Vienna on Sept. 12, 1683.

Jen, I am an immortal but I was hanging out in the South Pacific in 1683 battling another immortal with swords.

Sorry.

Bill C on November 10, 2006 at 6:21 PM

Uh, Bill, I was asking you to recall your historical knowledge, hon…Nevermind.

Jen the Neocon on November 10, 2006 at 6:32 PM

On the subject of torture, I was just reading up on the spanish inquisition, I have to say those cats had some right ideas. Firstly, guess where the idea of waterboarding came from … hint: it used to be called the Toca.

The methods of torture most used by the Inquisition were garrucha, toca and the potro. The application of the garrucha, also known as the strappado, consisted of suspending the criminal from the ceiling by a pulley with weights tied to the ankles, with a series of lifts and drops, during which arms and legs suffered violent pulls and were sometimes dislocated.[25]. The toca, also called tortura del agua, consisted of introducing a cloth into the mouth of the victim, and forcing them to ingest water spilled from a jar so that they had impression of drowning.[26] The potro, the rack, was the instrument of torture used most frequently.[27]

Secondly, the inquisition was used, amongst other things to rid post-moorish spain of remaining muslims. First they were forced to convert to christianity, then they were examined to see if they were ‘sincere’ converts or not.

Not saying we should introduce the holy inquisition, just pointing out that there were political reasons for it’s existence … :p

Aylios on November 10, 2006 at 6:33 PM

I hear you Jen the Neocon.

That article really made a lot of things make sense to me.

EFG on November 10, 2006 at 6:41 PM

Ex Defense Secretary Donal Rumsfeld is an America hero.

Someone has this crap a$$ backwards. The time is way overdo for the USDOJ to start prosecuting our treatorous media!

Berlinistan, Germany, like Peristan, France, had better look over their own shoulders, because, it won’t be very long before they’ll both be falling to “Dhimmitude.”

byteshredder on November 10, 2006 at 7:02 PM

Rumsfeld is true brass, baby. Old Europe should pray that they might still have a few good men such as he, before they slip into a new dark ages that appears all but sure to become their future.

Checkpoint Charlie on November 10, 2006 at 7:45 PM

Yeah, good luck with that, mein freund.

Neo on November 10, 2006 at 7:45 PM

Those who built Saddam’s torture chambers and supplied him with weapons will be the ones who will make a strong offensive against the ones who had to clean it up in an attempt to deflect their culpability.

If the US had even a moderatley strong leader, we would be sending our military to arrest Saddam’s Euro allies and they would be put on trial in the US.

Perchant on November 10, 2006 at 9:13 PM

Amen Perchant – that has been on my mind as well since at least mid-2002. Awesome link ElGen! (I won’t soon forget the name Manfred Nowak…) Am moving on to your links EFG…

RD on November 10, 2006 at 9:48 PM

If Germany wishes to pursue this course in prosecuting Rumsfeld, I say we need to close all of our bases over there and redeploy every single American Military person there. After all, shouldn’t they be responsible for their own defense? Why are we there still? That war was over long ago. Why are we paying them billions in dollars every year just to be there to be slapped around symbolically by them. Our presence there is producing more Nazi’s, even though our media doesn’t report on them.

After my tours in Viet Nam, I was stationed there from 1971 to 1974 and they didn’t like us then, long before either Bush was in office or our entry into Iraq.

We don’t need troops in Germany or Europe. We should redeploy “nearby,” and could always “rapidly re-enter” from elsewhere, if need be.

LewWaters on November 11, 2006 at 12:04 AM

Bill, remember what happened at the Gates of Vienna on Sept. 12, 1683.

Jihad denied.

I can assure you that neither the Poles nor the jihadis have forgotten.

That’s why OBL selected Sept 11.

AZ_Redneck on November 11, 2006 at 12:21 AM

Just so I’m clear…The same people who claim that America is imperialist, arrogant, overeaching its authority, etc., are the ones who want to extend German legal juridiction over the whole world?

Wasn’t the last person to try that…oh, why go there?

Coyote D. on November 11, 2006 at 12:43 AM

Germany, and thier EU handlers, have an awful lot of GD nerve, thats all I can say.
I’ve got a message for those in Europe, YOU AND WHAT ARMY?
And don’t get me started on Europe and its various genocides- Saddam is the first totalitarian dictator to go on trial in history- all the others died in their beds. All of them learned terror from Le Terorisme Francaise, Marx and Lenin. So they just got alot of GD nerve thats all. Hey Europe:
Don’t make me come over there and KICK YOUR ASS!! AGAIN!!!

Jen the Neocon on November 11, 2006 at 1:52 AM

I se e [sic] Janis Karpinski will be testifying as well This basically looks like the same bunch of people who did that weirdo mock “impeachment hearing” in the Capitol.

You mean the same “bunch of people” that will soon be appointed chairs of U.S. House and Senate committees? If they don’t get satisfaction in Germany, they’ll try again here. Heck, even if Germany does their bidding, they’ll probably go for a “double whammy” here as well.

mojojojo on November 11, 2006 at 6:11 AM

Texas Rainmaker,

The Center for Consitutional Rights is a grantee of Soros’ Open Society Institute.

Yes indeed. The engine behind this propaganda is the communist left. This is the American branch of the hate America crowd, and the Germans aren’t going to dirty their hands with this nonsense. But why is an American “Constitutional Rights” group looking to a 4th country to litigate American treatment of 3rd country prisoners? What does this have to do with Constitutional rights?

I’ve got to say that the notion of the Germans declaring themselves worthy to judge all others on their treatment of prisoners is pretty amusing.

Pablo on November 11, 2006 at 6:51 AM

My only question is, who are they going to send to get him?

DoctorDentons on November 11, 2006 at 7:02 AM

Just so I’m clear…The same people who claim that America is imperialist, arrogant, overeaching its authority, etc., are the ones who want to extend German legal juridiction over the whole world?

Wasn’t the last person to try that…oh, why go there?

Coyote D. on November 11, 2006 at 12:43 AM

This was a direct result of Nuremburg. You can guess the motivation.

honora on November 11, 2006 at 8:55 AM

As been noted, the Center for Consitutional Rights was a communist front, originally funded by the Soviet Union, that is now funded in part by George Soros. Michael Ratner is the one responsible for this nonsense.

Bill C has the right idea. Introduce a bill that cuts foreign aid, and prohibits imports and exports or business investiment in any country that (1) indicts, (2) sues, or (3) begins any legal proceedings against any current or former official or member of the Armed Forces of the United States. The proposed bill should refuse recognition of juridistion of any country that attempts to serve process on or extradite OR ARREST any current or former official or Armed Forces member.

If the Democrats either kill, defeat or table such a bill, George W. Bush and the Republicans have a campaign issue that will put the Democrats out of power for years to come.

If the Democrats join is passing such a bill, the Center for Consitutional Rights and the ACLU will be forever barred from continuing with this mischief.

georgej on November 11, 2006 at 9:32 AM

Honora wrote: “This was a direct result of Nuremburg. You can guess the motivation.”

Actually, it was not. These are a different set of circumstances. Note that proposed venue is NOT the International Criminal Court which is an offshot of the Nurembrug tribunals. The proposed venue is the legal system of a single European country.

And the motivation is “GET BUSH!!” BDS, nothing else.

georgej on November 11, 2006 at 9:35 AM

we really need to close down out bases there, We have supported their econmy and rebuilt their country. We supported their country for over 50 years. if we pack up, like we did with so many bases int he last 15 years, their country will go broke. But it would teach them to go F off…

I am of German heritage, and also spent time stationed there in the US Air Force. Since they hate us so damned much, let’s pull out. How come the Democrats don’t scream about us being in places like Germany and South Korea for 50 years?

let’s get the hell out and let the German’s economy rot in hell. I don’t think the democratic civilians in the USA realize how much we support their economy, it wil collapse if we leave. Many towns and viallges will cease to exist in germany and many othe rcountries if we pull out.

This is the tahnx the USA gets from most all countries.
F’em!

retired on November 11, 2006 at 1:29 PM

…the attack of one nation upon another is an attack, whether it comes from a missle battery or a courtroom. The nation should try to protect its citizens from prosecution overseas, as the Mexicans do when their illegal “tourists” drift in to murder our people, or when that transient Frenchman — the so-called 20th hijacker — was caught.

Then again, there might be some merit in the charge. After all, if there is *ANY* people on the face of the Earth with proven expertise in the field of outrage, systemized murder and war criminality, it’s the Germans in particular, and the modern Europeans in general.

Puritan1648 on November 11, 2006 at 2:06 PM

under da bus

Kini on November 11, 2006 at 2:46 PM

You guys are all completely ridiculous…Germany has nothing to do with this lawsuit, it is being filed by a third party in the German legal system. You can’t blame a country when someone files a lawsuit in one of their courts. Are you serious? Are you just looking for a reason to hate one of our allies?

JaHerer22 on November 11, 2006 at 3:11 PM

Rumsfeld and Gonzales are welcome at my house.

If any of the countries involved are unsure of the extent of German authority, I can assure them that it does end at the beginning of my property line.

AZ_Redneck on November 11, 2006 at 8:38 PM

1) smear and besmirch Rumsfield and Gonzales, our Attorney General – gum up the leadership of the US government and therefore the correct functioning of the country in time of war.

2) Isn’t any legal action taken in any EU nation valid automatically in all the EU? Therefore, Rumsfield and Co. will never ever be able to step foot in Europe again or risk the Pinochet treatment.

3) Continuing on the theme, if trhe SecDef is open for egal action, then ANY US soldier could be arrested if in EUrope. REsult, Europe becomes no-man’s land for US troops, depriving the US military of transit zones, tactical support and redeployment options.

4) Hello people! This is all a tactic of WAR to cripple our military, the movement of our military and the conduct of our military leadership. If the Democrats actually cared about America as a nation, they would be loudly condeming this and circling the wagons, but no … they gloat in it. They want to use this to whittle the GOP to a thin reed, unable to function as a political party and no threat in 2008 to Hillary’s scorched earth campaign.

naliaka on November 11, 2006 at 9:32 PM

Leave my Donald alone. Ditto for Roberto.

bloggless on November 11, 2006 at 9:40 PM

If these charges are filed we should go on over and file our own charges against Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for the beheadings, stoning to death for being unchaste, and the death penalties for homosexuality in Iran and Sheik Hassan Nasrallah for the murders of the Israeli soldiers and kidnap in his cross border raid earlier this year. If they refuse to file on Nasrallah we’ll scream anti semite at the top of our lungs.

Buzzy on November 11, 2006 at 9:56 PM

Did they ever indict Osama?

profitsbeard on November 12, 2006 at 1:25 PM