First of all, the proposal that was floated around a few months ago would have made illegals pay a maximum of three years of back taxes. That amounts to a “tax amnesty” for those here more than three years, even if John McCain would prefer we call it a “tax banana.”

Second, how many of these illegals are even going to pony up three years, or even one year, of back taxes to gain citizenship? Most of them are more interested in being residents rather than citizens. In the end, subsequent legislation would have simply abolished that entire tax provision, I suspect. Certainly, there were no provisions in those previous bills for deporting those who did not pony up.

Third, even those taxes that they wanted the illegals to pay came with none of the usual fees and penalties that an American citizen would have to pay for avoiding the IRS. That is a tax amnesty banana in and of itself.

To understand the correct interpretation of the 14th Amendment we need to understand what the co-author of the amendment wrote about the Amendment. In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard wrote, “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors, or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.” Senator Howard wrote the addition phrase specifically because he wanted to make it clear that the simple accident of birth in the US is not sufficient to justify citizenship.
The US Supreme Court recognized this when they ruled in 1873 that the phrase (and subject to the jurisdiction thereof) excluded “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens of foreign states born within the United States.” Since the court recognized that the children of foreign citizens and diplomats should not be granted US citizenship, why should anyone think that the children of those that enter the US illegally are subject to the jurisdiction of the US government? The simple answer is no thinking person would. The anchor baby parents are neither US citizens, subject to US jurisdiction, nor do they owe any allegiance to the US. Federal immigration laws require aliens to renounce all allegiance to any foreign government and to support the US Constitution to become citizens. The parents of anchor babies never fulfilled this obligation and were never “subject to the jurisdiction” of the US.

Both the author of the 14th Amendment and the US Supreme Court recognized that an alien mother and her baby are subject to the jurisdiction of their native country – not the US. The 14th Amendment wasn’t created to provide an end run for aliens to defy US immigration laws. But politicians have subverted the Constitution and allowed citizenship to any child born in the US. This misinterpretation is not accidental – it is intentional. An error of this magnitude could not be accidental.

Hope all these excerpts aren’t borin’ y’all to death. But it’s good stuff!

The fact is that if the threat of deportation is real, the actual deporations are far less – thereby not such a logistical stretch. If we’re serious about it, and the illegals get that message, many will return home of their own volition. It’s happened before, and will happen again.

Yes, the scale is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. The numbers of illegals are likely closer to 30 million than the government’s oft cited figures of 11 million. Hard work, sure – but nowhere near impossible.

uh, never mind for my previous post, Kid from Brooklyn’s post says it all

Starblazer on November 9, 2006 at 2:12 PM

Kid from Brooklyn/Starblazer,

Pardon me if I have some doubts. It seems to me that the vast majority of Hispanic illegals have almost NO incentive AT ALL to become U.S. citizens. This is because they have one of the world’s best retirement systems. No one here is mentioning that fact that their offspring ARE AUTOMATICALLY U.S. citizens by virtue of their birth. This is why the illegals don’t NEED U.S. citizenship. We all know that they already have (illegal) employment. And as if that wasn’t enough, they simply retire and live off of the economic gains and citizenship privileges of their children. Once they walk across that border, they only need to do one thing — procreate.

I thought my plan was pretty good. :D

Redhead Infidel on November 9, 2006 at 3:42 PM

Two of us thought your plan was pretty good ;)

An unknown Hispanic male, who uses the alias Victor Gonzalez, along with an unknown Hispanic female, who uses the alias Beatrice Gonzalez, are wanted for committing crimes in Texas. On April 18, 2003, a woman was allegedly kidnapped from a storage facility in Dumas, Texas, by Victor and Beatrice Gonzalez. Victor Gonzalez allegedly bound and beat the female victim, then drove her several hours to an undetermined location, where she was turned over to a third accomplice. After which, Victor Gonzalez and his male accomplice drove the victim to Juarez, Mexico, allegedly assaulting her during the drive. The victim, who suffered injuries to her eyes, head, wrists, and legs, escaped 3 days after her ordeal began by sneaking out of a Mexican hospital.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/gonzalez_v.htm

You’re right, my plan sucks, I completely agree. But so does every other plan. It’s not an easy problem and that’s why we need to suck it up and get it fixed.

Yep. Since we are afraid to speak honestly on these issues, we are moving in the direction of becoming another Latin American banana republic, with massive class and racial stratification, just like Mexico and almost every other nation south of us. Political correctness and multiculturalism have paralyzed us in the face of existential threats to our nation.

If our leaders had the political will, they could develop a much better system for verifying legitimate employment. They don’t have the will to do so, so we are stuck with crummy and easily forged social security numbers giving employers cover if heat comes down on them.

Funny you should say that, Tommy…I just got off the phone with a Puerto Rican client who’s had his identity thieved by 5 different people…SIMULTANEOUSLY! They’re in Texas, California, NJ, and Connecticut…not that I am implying they may be illegal or anything…..

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003304.html#003304

Unfortunately, even 4th-generation Mexican-Americans perform incredibly poorly in the U.S. educational system. Previous waves of European immigrants tended to increase their school performance up to the third generation and, by that time, were roughly at American norms. Mexicans tend to max out at the third generation also. Unfortunately, they are nowhere near American norms by that point.

Tommy, to further underscore that point, Heather MacDonald has written:

Hispanic youths, whether recent arrivals or birthright American citizens, are developing an underclass culture. (By “Hispanic” here, I mean the population originating in Latin America—above all, in Mexico—as distinct from America’s much smaller Puerto Rican and Dominican communities of Caribbean descent, which have themselves long shown elevated crime and welfare rates.) Hispanic school dropout rates and teen birthrates are now the highest in the nation. Gang crime is exploding nationally—rising 50 percent from 1999 to 2002—driven by the march of Hispanic immigration east and north across the country. Most worrisome, underclass indicators like crime and single parenthood do not improve over successive generations of Hispanics—they worsen.

Debate has recently heated up over whether Mexican immigration—unique in its scale and in other important ways—will defeat the American tradition of assimilation. The rise of underclass behavior among the progeny of Mexicans and other Central Americans must be part of that debate. There may be assimilation going on, but a significant portion of it is assimilation downward to the worst elements of American life.

Something to think about…

Yeah. Like that would be real difficult if our political leaders had any incentive to do so. As it is, we often know exactly where many of these people hang out (day labor centers, meat packing plants, agriculture, construction sites, state and federal prison systems), but we don’t have the political will to do anything about it.

If our leaders had the political will, they could develop a much better system for verifying legitimate employment. They don’t have the will to do so, so we are stuck with crummy and easily forged social security numbers giving employers cover if heat comes down on them.

I believe the answer is a combination of external and internal enforcement. Make it hard to get into the country physically (build the wall) and make it hard for those who are not in the country legitimately to obtain employment.

We should…attempt to get as many illegals as possible to willingly return…However for the remaining illegals, we need some sort of path to citzenship or path to something other than remaining an illegal alien that will allow them to work, receive health care, etc.

Doesn’t that immediately undermine everything else? If illegals think that all they have to do is hold out longer than anyone else to get amnesty – that golden ticket for freebies like education and health care – why would anyone leave voluntarily? Have you thought that through? Illegality cannot be rewarded with amnesty. Period.

“we would have sick Mexican children literally dying in streets “

Oh, puhleeze.

Mexican-Americans versus non-Mexican-Americans:

First Gen. All Americans *
No high school degree (%) 69.9 23.5
High school degree (%) 24.7 30.4
Post high school degree (%) 5.4 45.1

Second Gen. All Americans *
No high school degree (%) 51.5 23.5
High school degree (%) 39.2 30.4
Post high school degree (%) 9.3 45.1

Third Gen. All Americans *
No high school degree (%) 33.0 23.5
High school degree (%) 58.5 30.4
Post high school degree (%) 8.5 45.1

Fourth Gen. All Americans *
No high school degree (%) 41.0 23.5
High school degree (%) 49.4 30.4
Post high school degree (%) 9.6 45.1

* Except Mexican Americans, 1990

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002109.html

If you are looking for engineers, scientists, medical professionals, and the other sorts of personnel who are needed to maintain a First World country, don’t expect to find the numbers you need in the Mexican population. Instead, the influx of Mexicans and other Latin Americans will dilute the ratio of such professionals in respect to the general population. That is a recipe for reducing the United States from a First World country to a Third World country.

California, by the way, now ranks as the third dumbest state in the country according to a recent study of average state IQ scores. New Mexico and Arizona aren’t too far behind. Even West Virginia beats California by a few IQ points:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/10/estimating-iq-of-states-of-usa.html

“the problem isn’t getting them out, it’s finding them”

I think you’d be surprised at how easy they would be to find. Every community in America knows where the illegals live, work, and hang out.

Thing is, Danno, the pols have the common sense to know what the right thing is in this situation; but refuse to do it in the name of political expediency. That’s where having guts come in. Or “character”, if you’d like.

Kid from Brooklyn on November 9, 2006 at 2:54 PM

The pols need to look at these again, political expediency or not:

Arizona Prop 100. Denies bail to illegal immigrants.
Arizona Prop 102. Bars illegal immigrants from winning punitive damages.
Arizona Prop 103. Makes English the official state language.
Arizona Prop 300. Bars illegal aliens from receiving state subsidies for education and child care.
Colorado Referendum H. Bars businesses from deducting wages paid to illegal aliens.
Colorado Referendum K. Directs attorney general to sue federal government to enforce immigration laws.

Again, ALL of those PASSED this past Tuesday.

I don’t have the numbers for the Colorado initiatives, but for those in AZ, they all received greater than 70% of the vote.

Again, REAL poll numbers registered by REAL voters.

@Tommy1
That article is outrageous…we can deport 11 million people by bus in 5 days? Maybe if they are lined up at bus station waiting; the problem isn’t getting them out, it’s finding them.

@shooter
Cracking down on employers and taking away all benefits from illegals is something to consider. However I think you’re half right; half would return home, the other half would stay here, resorting to crime and homelessness; we would have sick Mexican children literally dying in streets and though we might have fewer illegals, the ones that were still here would be in much worse shape and cause many more problems.

As for my idea, I do believe we need a fence or some other method of firmly securing the border as well as a forward-looking plan to decide how many immigrants will legally be allowed in the country every year. We should crack down on employers who hire them and attempt to get as many illegals as possible to willingly return. Anyone convicted of a crime, should be immediatly deported. However for the remaining illegals, we need some sort of path to citzenship or path to something other than remaining an illegal alien that will allow them to work, receive health care, etc. I realize that this may not be fair to those who did come legally, and it might not be justice for breaking the law, but I think it is in the long term best interest of the country to solve the problem. No solution is perfect, no solution is even good, but we have to draw a line in the sand, solve the problem however painful, and move on. Something mercy and compassion are more important than justice. Just ask Jesus…