Video: The dirty Citizens United wiretap ad
posted at 3:14 pm on November 3, 2006 by Allahpundit
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I saw this a few days ago and passed because it was so misleading, but people keep sending it to me so I give up.
Here’s a phrase they might want to include in the next iteration: without a warrant.
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The only misleading going on on this issue, is Democrats misleading idiot libs in to believing there are guys with headsets sitting in a big room listening to them call their parents for more weed money. You know, because we have unlimited money and hundreds of millions of people to shadow each of us to intercept and spy on all of our communications. Go read Ace’s post folks.
RightWinged on November 3, 2006 at 6:55 PM
I get it! ‘Cause all Democrats are lazy dope smokers! Good one!
They should have taken it one step further: “Republicans will break the law to get wiretaps, just like President Bush… because changing the law is just too time-consuming.”
Constantine on November 3, 2006 at 7:06 PM
Just because the ad is “unwarranted”, it doesn’t mean that criticism of those -who would endanger us all for their love of absurd, legalistic minutae during a shooting war- is not.
On an historical note: FDR approved of military censors checking every soldier’s letter sent home during WW II -to check for the intentional or unintentional release of intelligence info- as well empowering the FBI to open the mail & telegrams of many U.S. civilians and foreign nationals for the same security reasons.
And he never said “We have nothing to fear but fear itself” when talking about warfare. (That was about relatively-unthreatening bank manipulations, stock market corruption and assorted rank economic follies.) About real combat, he was more than clear:
I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense… No matter how long it may take for us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory… we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but we will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again.”
Nowadays, he would be sitting next to Joe Lieberman, and mocked as a ‘little eichmann’ by the war-denial wing of the party that once was his home.
profitsbeard on November 3, 2006 at 7:49 PM
Thanks Constantine. You qualify for John Kerry’s military.
Gregor on November 3, 2006 at 8:29 PM
This is a NSA electronic intercept. NSA is a Military Operation not Civilian. As such the NSA CANNOT get a warrant. NSA has no standing before a Court. This is intellegence gathering. If they find information which the NSA thinks is Terror Related, the FBI is notified as to the suspect. The FBI then investigates and if further information is developed an FISA warrant can be obtained by the FBI.
In light of this information what’s misleading? Under Clinton, any information NSA developed COULD NOT be shared with the FBI or other intellegence agencies (the Wall). GWB reversed this separation Wall which was never intended to be there anyway. So where is there any violation of Article 4? A warrant is only needed to take FBI monotoring and this has been happening.
RDS on November 3, 2006 at 8:34 PM
I like it. Should have had spookier music, a puppy, and a nuclear weapon.
Otherwise, it was great.
Christoph on November 3, 2006 at 9:40 PM
An ad that speaks the truth is hardly dirty, or any kind of attack ad. For a year now the dems have been misleading the public by calling this a “domestic spying program”. It is a foreign surveillance program. They raise all holy hell that Bush wants to listen to your conversations, that Bush is nothing more than a voyeur. Logic then directs me to the obvious…..they oppose this program. So, logic being the king of reason, this ad takes their opposition to it’s logical conclusion….albeit a blunt, in your face way, it’s message is dead on……
Let’s all remember the words of Abe Lincoln…”the constitution is not a suicide-pact”. Think of the constitutional head-aches this man had to confront in his battle to preserve the union…….
ritethinker on November 3, 2006 at 11:20 PM
The Democrats are against warrantless wiretaps, not all wiretaps. It’s deliberately misleading.
Allahpundit on November 3, 2006 at 3:23 PM
Allah-babe–this ad is no worse the f**king crap the Dem’s have been putting out for years against the Repubs which was GROSSLY misleading. So WTF are saying in a principle the Dem’s are against when the ad is written for effect. It’s like those freeking Fwd emails we all get on something like “Under God” was deleted from the memeorial, or Pepsi’s under God flap. Its all BS. But the ‘Point” is made in the email so as to NOT take ‘Under God’ out of our nations fabric.
The Dem’s are a scummy bunch, politics of late have been the worst I’ve seen it to date. It has been atrocis, and really misleading from the Left. F**k them. I hope the hell they get burried Tuesday.
auspatriotman on November 3, 2006 at 11:48 PM
Hmm… could she be Alan Combs in drag?
E L Frederick on November 3, 2006 at 11:50 PM
Well, the call could be recorded. They can record the calls, they just can’t listen to them until they get a warrant. At least that’s the argument that Democrat surrogates have made on cable news shows, and it’s the reason that the ad is not innaccurate.
DaveS on November 4, 2006 at 12:46 AM
The issue isn’t wiretaps or warrants either; the issue is whether the ad is going to persuade anybody to vote Republican. Frankly, I think it’s more likely to energize liberal indignation than to fire up any undecideds. How many of the folks endorsing it as righteous here were planning to sit this election out?
It’s just a weak tea version of “Vote Democrat and Die.” Next to “Stuck on Stupid” it may be my all time favorite slogan, but is it a vote getter? Not so much.
JM Hanes on November 4, 2006 at 2:55 AM
Allahpundit wrote: “The Democrats are against warrantless wiretaps, not all wiretaps. It’s deliberately misleading.”
No. It is not.
What is misleading is the Democrat’s claim that warrants are needed to collect foreign intelligence, even if inside of the United States. At least 7 US Supreme Court opinions state that a search warrant IS NOT NECESSARY if the goal it to obtain foreign intelligence.
Here they are, listed in no particular order:
Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967).
“Whether safeguards other than prior authorization by a magistrate would satisfy the Fourth Amendment in a situation involving the national security is a question not presented by this case.”
[Justice White concurring]:
“In joining the Court’s opinion, I note the Court’s acknowledgment that there are circumstances in which it is reasonable to search without a warrant. In this connection, in footnote 23 the Court points out that today’s decision does not reach national security cases. Wiretapping to protect the security of the Nation has been authorized by successive Presidents.”
United States v. United States District Court (Keith) (1972)
United States v. [Cassius] Clay, 430 F.2d 165 (5th Cir. 1970)
“The fifth wiretap was not disclosed to defendant because the District Court found that the surveillance was lawful, having been authorized by the Attorney General, for the purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence information. The Supreme Court has not yet decided whether electronic surveillance for the purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence information is constitutionally permissible [citation omitted], though Mr. Justice White has expressed the view that such surveillance does not violate the Fourth Amendment….
…[We] discern no constitutional prohibition against the fifth wiretap. Section 605 of Title 47, U.S.C., is a general prohibition against publication or use of communications obtained by wiretapping, but we do not read the section as forbidding the President, or his representative, from ordering wiretap surveillance to obtain foreign intelligence in the national interest.”
United States v. Brown, 484 F.2d 418 (5th Cir. 1973)
United States v. Butenko, 494 F.2d 593 (3rd Cir. 1974),
“In sum, we hold that, in the circumstances of this case, prior judicial authorization was not required since the district court found that the surveillances of Ivanov were “conducted and maintained solely for the purpose of gathering foreign intelligence information.””
United States v. Humphrey (1978)
United States v. Buck, 548 F.2d 871 (9th Cir. 1977),
“Foreign security wiretaps are a recognized exception to the general warrant requirement”
United States v. Duggan, 743 F.2d 59 (1984),
“Prior to the enactment of FISA, virtually every court that had addressed the issue had concluded that the President had the inherent power to conduct warrantless electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence information, and that such surveillances constituted an exception to the warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment”
United States v. Truong, 629 F.2d 908 (4th Cir. 1980),
“In the area of foreign intelligence, the government contends, the President may authorize surveillance without seeking a judicial warrant because of his constitutional prerogatives in the area of foreign affairs.”
“For several reasons, the needs of the executive are so compelling in the area of foreign intelligence, unlike the area of domestic security, that a uniform warrant requirement would, following [United States v. United States District Court, 407 U.S. 297 (1972)], “unduly frustrate” the President in carrying out his foreign affairs responsibilities. First of all, attempts to counter foreign threats to the national security require the utmost stealth, speed and secrecy. A warrant requirement would add a procedural hurdle that would reduce the flexibility of executive foreign intelligence activities, in some cases delay executive response to foreign intelligence threats, and increase the chance of leaks regarding sensitive executive operations.”
In the only appellate case concerning FISA, United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, in Sealed Case No. 02-001:
“The Truong court [United States v. Truong Dinh Hung, 4th Cir. 1980], as did all the other courts to have decided the issue, held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. … … We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.”
Go back to the actual language of 4th Amendment:
Emphasis added.
Question: Is it REASONABLE to wire tap and act upon a conversation between a foreign terrorist and his sleeper cell in the United States?
Ans: Yes. Because preventing a terrorist attack prevents the loss of innocent American lives. The quote has been used before: “The Constitution is not a suicide pact.” Indeed, the founders inserted the word “unreasonable” recognizing that exigent circumstances may require immediate action to save lives that might be lost while negotiating the path to obtaining a warrant.
Q: Is this the only instance where warrantless searches are allowed?
Ans: NO. The Supreme Court has ruled over the years that WARRANTLESS SEARCHES may be made in a number of instances. This list comes from Andrew C. McCarthy’s article, “Warrantless Searches of Americans? That’s Shocking!”
So, the Democrats are lying and this advertisement is not misleading. They’re lying about the current state of the law with respect to search warrants. They are lying about the specific program that the President ordered, and they are doing this lying solely for political purposes.
So I intend to vote as if my life (and that of my family) depended upon it. Because, the ad is correct, it does. Without the NSA terrorist tracking program and SWIFT, the United States is dangerously handicaped in protecting the population of the USA.
georgej on November 4, 2006 at 3:35 AM
Is there any way to interpret this other than “if Democrats are elected, terrorists will kill every single person in America” ? This is a prime example of how the Republican message has become completely disconnected with reality. This position disregards statistics and feasibility and instead relies solely on intent. Following the same “logic,” if I declared that I wanted to kill everyone in America, you’d have to vote for someone who would do “X” to stop me, or you would die. This position has no regard for the statistical significance of terrorism for any one person. Little secret: terrorism, as a method of killing people, is horribly inefficient. There is a huge difference between perceived risk and actual risk, and this ad attempts to blur that line. Forget 5,000 people dying on 9/11 … they want you to believe that 300 million lives are on the line. It’s fear mongering, and it’s so pathetic that stalwart right-wingers are groaning and seeing it as over-the-top self-parody.
FISA warrants can be obtained after the fact, in emergency situations. The Bush administration wants to be able to listen, and then decline to apply for a retroactive warrant.
False. Repeat with me: retroactive warrants are permitted under FISA Democrats are not saying we should roll the clock back on FISA, which was modernized in 2001 to handle all modern forms of communication used by terrorists (according to Bush).
You give too much credit. People are stupid. The majority of people going to the polls are basing their vote on underhanded and factually incorrect 30 second spots like the one above. Consider how many people in these comments don’t get the simple fact that existing law allows for retroactive application for warrants. Consider how many people above think Democrats want to eliminate ad hoc listening. Consider how many people above aren’t aware that in October of 2001 Bush said that the government had what it needed to listen in to every form of terrorist communication:
It’s not a mistake that “without a warrant” was omitted from the ad above. It wasn’t done in order to fit into the time slot. It was done because while a majority supports listening in to terrorists, a majority also opposes warrantless wiretapping. So, if they presented all the facts, their ad would only appeal to the minority who thinks the government should be able to listen without getting a warrant (even retroactively). As it is, the ad appeals to the majority that agree that we should be listening in to terrorists, and it paints the Democrats as opposed to that idea. It’s a lie.
The arguments I see above:
- Straw men (or severe misunderstandings) about Democratic positions (”they are against ad hoc listening!”)
- Straw men (or severe misunderstandings) about FISA (”it doesn’t allow ad hoc listening!”)
- “Democrats have sleazy ads too”
- “If it helps us win, it’s worth it”
- “It’s a political ad… people assume it to be a lie”
- “It’s a lie, but people know the truth, so it’s okay”
- “It’s just an ad… all ads are misleading”
Seriously? Is that the best you have?
You all need to take a deep breath and listen to MKH, Allahpundit and EFG. And enough with the lame “ooh, you’re going soft” jabs at them. This sort of lynch-mob mentality is very DU. Very DailyKos.
Mark Jaquith on November 4, 2006 at 4:44 AM
Desperate times, desperate measures. Dirty ads work in many cases but when they are this over the top, people just scoff at them.
honora on November 4, 2006 at 10:55 AM
Yes. How about “If Democrats are elected, they will take fighting terrorism much less seriously than Republicans, which means that sooner rather than later people are going to get killed. It could be you, or someone you know. But even if it’s a complete stranger, it will have a cumulative effect on our political system, our economy, and your daily life, just for starters. Vote accordingly.”
Is that more of the “fearmongering” that I’ve been hearing so much girlish whining about lately? Here’s a hint: telling people that someone is trying to kill them when someone is actually trying to kill them isn’t fearmongering. It’s called realism. If anybody didn’t get that part before 9/11, that day should have been a wakeup call. And if you try to minimize an actual threat, you do people a disservice by deceiving them into leaving themselves vulnerable.
Mark, seriously, based on your first paragraph up there, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of terrorism. Like this bit here:
You quite correctly point out that terrorists don’t have the means to kill all of us, and that our individual risk is very low, but that’s not the point. Terrorism isn’t mass murder for its own sake, it’s a means of coercion, a form of asymmetric warfare aimed at achieving certain goals. They wouldn’t hesitate to kill any one of us to achieve those goals, but the violence is a means to an end, not the end in itself. And if you don’t want to take my word for it, here are a couple of sources:
According to the CIA, “The term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.”
Or from PBS: Terrorism is defined by the U.S. Department of Defense as “the unlawful use of — or threatened use of — force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.”
Terrorists can’t defeat the United States on the battlefield, so they’ll attack soft civilian targets at home in order to influence our government. That doesn’t require killing all of us, just the willingness to kill as many as it takes to get us to give them what they want. Can you seriously tell me that they don’t have that willingness? If you think they don’t, watch a few beheading videos. And considering that there are people right now who are ready to start giving them what they want (say, pulling our troops out of all Arab countries, for starters), just how hard do you think they’d have to push before the hardcore appeasement really kicks in? The Madrid train bombings–just 10 small bombs–changed the results of the entire Spanish elections a few days later, ushering in an appeasing government that pulled Spanish troops out of Iraq. (Or, simply put, Al Qaeda said “Jump!”, and Spain said, “How high?”) Ten bombings that killed 191 people did that. And how soon we start appeasing terrorists over here will be directly proportional to how soon the Democrats control the U.S. government. Can you honestly tell me that they wouldn’t cave before Republicans would? Honestly? Now if caving is what you want, that still might appear to be a good thing, but I would hope that any good libertarian would want the actions of the U.S. government to be dictated by the will of the American people, not by foreign elements that wish us harm.
In any event, terrorists are going to keep trying to attack us, and sooner or later the Law of Averages is going to end up in their favor. Numerous officials in law enforcement and counterterrorism have been saying as much for years, and it’s really inevitable in a large and open society like ours. But our government has a duty to make any attacks as difficult as possible–to protect the lives of its citizens using all reasonable means. And maybe you can just dismiss the deaths of complete strangers as statistics, but I can’t. The victims sure as hell can’t. But even if you can ignore the deaths themselves, you won’t be able to ignore the ripple effects that those deaths have–those effects, after all, are the whole point of the attack. Look at the economic impact alone of 9/11–the stock market took a hit, it worsened the recession we were already entering, and any industry related to travel was devastated for months if not years. Do you think further attacks will just occur in a vacuum, and won’t bother you in any way? Good luck with that. Me, I have to go with the party that’s going to fight the hardest to defend the lives of all Americans, and from where I’m standing there’s no comparison. Straight Republican on November 7th.
ReubenJCogburn on November 4, 2006 at 12:11 PM
Reuben, who could add to that? Brilliant and well-argued.
Some ads are fear-mongering, some are realist–this one is realist.
Those who try to minimize its message and ignore the warning are just hitting the 9/10/01 snooze button at their own and everyone else’s peril.
9/11 was our wake up call, but the next one will be even worse.
DO VOTE REPUBLICAN AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT NOV. 7, BECAUSE IT DOES.
Jen the Neocon on November 4, 2006 at 12:42 PM
The NSA intercepts work by monitoring INTERNATIONAL tele-traffic in bulk
for suspicious patterns and, only then, point out both US and foreign origins
of said patterns. If further monitoring of the US correspondent is warranted
then a court order is sought.
For you guys in Rio Linda: Think of an audio stream of 77 quintykilogillion
“yada yadas” per second per second, inside of which there is ONE “yadaboom”
Ain’t no judge that fast. Besides, since the ‘yadas’ are coming from overseas
Bush has every right to monitor enemy jive at the time of (yes, it is) war.
So, with a great deal of respect for Allah, the neatly succint word “warrantless” is not warranted.
ATC
attila the cuban on November 4, 2006 at 1:35 PM
I was in law enforcement
This is the chicken and egg scenario
If we don’t listen in, we will never get any evidence for a wiretap – so no wiretaps unless someone tips us ahead of time
riiight……
You know, maybe the entire administration and intellengence service actually know what they are doing….
just a thought
EricPWJohnson on November 4, 2006 at 3:34 PM
Sorry about the misspelling of intelligence its late over here in the middle east
EricPWJohnson on November 4, 2006 at 3:36 PM
This is SO frustrating.
There have been a number of references to the ability of the Government to obtain “72 hour retroactive authority” for these intercepts under FISA.
The long and the short of this is that apart from the cumbersomeness of the FISA process (I have some experience with this, as an FBI agent with 27 years on the job), the plain truth is that FISA just does not apply in the instant matter.
The FISA program applies to situations where “probable cause” exists to believe that person being monitored is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power. If the person being monitored is a “US Person” (basically a legal alien or US citizen), then there must be probable cause to believe that the U.S. person’s activities “may” or “are about to” involve a violation of the criminal statutes of the United States. Even under a 72-hour “emergency” application, the government must certify that “factual basis for issuance of an order under this subchapter to approve such surveillance exists.” That factual basis is the standard contained in Sec. 1805(a)(3)(A).
In other words, even after the fact, the Government must certify that at the time of the intercept, the probable cause existed as required by FISA.
The NSA monitoring program does not fit the circumstances described here, because at the time of the intercept, probable cause does not exist that the intercepted party is a foreign power or acting as an agent for a foreign power. In fact, it is more likely that the more stringent “US Person” standards would apply in this case.
Since the identity of the intercepted party is likely not even known at the time of the intercept, it should be clear that the Government could not be in possession of any “probable cause” concerning the party and hence, could not certify that the probable cause existed.
That is why the concept of “warrant” or “warrantless” really doesn’t apply to the NSA monitoring program. There is simply no vehicle existent in law that would allow the Government to obtain a warrant to monitor such calls.
AND, that is why the commercial is fair and accurate.
CalFed on November 4, 2006 at 4:34 PM
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