Blogwars: Me vs. Ace on Kerrygate

posted at 7:24 pm on November 2, 2006 by Allahpundit

You are dead to me.

Just kidding. I thought Ace’s response deserved a link after I accused him of being in “nutroots territory” last night, which was in turn a response to him implying that I was “crazy” for thinking Kerry’s remark might have been aimed at Bush and not the military.

It might be that I’m tired and/or burned out, but I’m not sure I follow him in the latest post. I think he’s saying this:

1. Kerry would never have explicitly called the troops uneducated. If he was going to do it, he’d do it obliquely. Ergo, the fact that he made an oblique comment which could be interpreted as slurring the troops is evidence that it was a comment slurring the troops.

2. Ace has the actual words on his side whereas I’m depending upon the context of what Kerry said in the 45 seconds immediately preceding the education comment, although on second thought Ace has even more contextual evidence than I do because Kerry’s been smearing the troops for 35 years.

3. The temporal proximity of Kerry’s jabs at Bush to his comment about the uneducated is largely irrelevant, and to the extent that is relevant or “helpful,” they weren’t really that proximate. To which I reply, watch the video and judge for yourself. The second joke about Bush ends at around 1:55; Kerry starts his education comment at about 2:07. Twelve seconds.

4. The fact that Kerry twice criticized Bush in the 45 seconds immediately preceding the education comment means nothing because all Democratic speeches criticize Bush. Criticism of Bush is so omnipresent that it doesn’t even count as context. By that logic, if Kerry gave a speech on the military and began with ten jokes about the Bush administration with the statement “These morons are wasting their time in Iraq and doing no one any good” sandwiched in between, he’d clearly have to be talking about the military because digs at Bush are de rigueur, to be expected, and therefore discounted for all interpretive purposes.

5. Kerry’s comment was directed at Bush and the troops. He didn’t limit what he said to uneducated “politicians” who are stuck in Iraq, after all. He directed it at uneducated people generally, the unnecessary and unconscious generality of which betrays his true secret feelings about American soldiers.

Read his post in full as I might have misunderstood him. This debate is starting to remind me of the left wetting its pants earlier this year when Tony Snow said “hugging the tar baby” at a WH press conference. Because Snow’s a conservative and the phrase “tar baby” does in certain contexts have racist connotations, they made an assumption as to intent. So let me ask my fellow righties — assuming I’m still allowed to call myself a righty, given some of the remarks being tossed around in Ace’s comments: if Tony the Tiger had used that particular metaphor during, say, an address to a group of black journalists, would it prove he was a racist? It’d be unfortunate and groan-worthy, but would you attibute racist intent to his remark?

“But Tony Snow doesn’t have a 35-year history of racism,” you’ll reply. That’s true — but according to Ace, what does the context matter when the actual words are on your side?

Context does matter, and how you hear Kerry’s remark depends almost entirely on what context is preeminent in your mind: his history of being a troop-smearing douchebag or the remarks that immediately preceded his comment plus his antagonism towards Bush plus the fact that not even Kerry’s so stupid as to insult the troops the week before an election plus, ironically, the fact that Ace is right about Bush-bashing being so prevalent in left-wing speeches. That’s where he loses me. Democrats do nothing but deride Bush in their speeches, so when an oblique remark is made that could be interpreted as deriding Bush — we’re not supposed to interpret it that way?

Again, I quote Lileks:

It’s possible to view this outside of what people think Kerry has expressed before – gaffe-wise, sometimes a cigar is just a cigre. I mean zagar. I meant cigar, and it’s clear I meant cigar, and I will not sit here and have my spelling challenged by people who never correctly rattled off the letters in “antidisestablishmentarianism” while half in the bag on a bet in college. In any case, I don’t have any Outrage over the matter because I don’t particularly care what Sen. Kerry says, and don’t see him as a relevant actor in modern politics. I understand why great amounts of hay is being thrashed over the matter, this being an election season. I understand how some are using the gaffe to draw attention to a greater point re: the hard left’s attitudes towards the military, but if that wasn’t actually the point Kerry was making then I can’t jump on board and affirm the greater point. That smacks of fake-but-accurate.

Yeah, it does. But then, Lileks and I are cuh-ray-zee!

Update: Jim Webb just e-mailed me to say that we could heal this rift if I’d just take Ace, turn him upside down, and — you know.

Update: Ace IMs to say, “it’s good for my traffic, when you’re being a [wussy], and then you say, ‘Here’s Ace, not being a [wussy]‘ — definitely an advertisement to click.”

I’m getting him one of these for his birthday.


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I’m glad you two are making up.

Most people would just shake hands. But since the two of you watched BrokeBack Mountain together, that probably isn’t your style.

One of you needs to flip the other over and…

Never mind.

That sorta talk belongs at Ace’s blog.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 7:28 PM

Next they’ll be fighting over who has custody of the Papillon.

Iblis on November 2, 2006 at 7:30 PM

Do you remember your first time????

seejanemom on November 2, 2006 at 7:31 PM

Seriously though, everybody here at HotAir has your back, AP. Except for the kooks.

There. I said it.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 7:33 PM

Couldn’t you two have made your spat a little…shorter? Between ace’s 2600 words and your 864, I’m tired out just reading the debate.

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:35 PM

Allah, are you suggesting we might see yours and Ace’s names on a soon-to-be-published “list” from David Corn? I wondered what you meant when you boldy declared that “Ace doesn’t kiss like a gay guy!”

:)

TexasRainmaker on November 2, 2006 at 7:36 PM

If he starts to spit in his hand…run like Hell.

seejanemom on November 2, 2006 at 7:37 PM

The funniest part of this Kerry military brouhaha is people like James Carville and someone else (can’t remember who) saying that Kerry’s comments aren’t relevant because he ran for election 2 years ago in ’04 and that there’s no point in reliving 2004. Which is funny, because all you hear from every Democrat out there is about George Bush this, George Bush that, that they’re against George Bush on this issue/that issue, my opponent voted with George Bush 90% of the time, etc. In the Cardin-Steele debate from last Sunday on MTP, Cardin/Russert brough up Bush 7 times in about 45 minutes. So I find it laughable when people like Carville complain that Kerry’s remarks aren’t relevant and say that he isn’t the issue when they have been trying to do the exact same thing regarding George W Bush for the last 6 months.

truthmattersfa on November 2, 2006 at 7:38 PM

I think context is important too, and I can’t think of any way a joke about Bush’s education being inadequate when it is nearly the same as Kerry’s makes any sense. Especially in a prepared speech. Maybe as an off the cuff remark, but not as something you came up with beforehand.

On the other hand, it does makes sense just the way he said it if you don’t know any better. I think he was playing to the crowd and got caught. He has put down our troops before and I don’t see any reason to believe he didn’t in this case.

n2sooners on November 2, 2006 at 7:38 PM

Couldn’t you two have made your spat a little…shorter? Between ace’s 2600 words and your 864, I’m tired out just reading the debate.

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:35 PM

Absolutely. I mentioned over at AoS that you have to read their arguements with your face two inches from the monitor just to make sure you don’t miss any of the subtleties of the arguements.

Which is why this whole thing needs to either go away, or be conducted with either funny pictures, like the Brokeback Mountain one above, or thru photoshoped immages.

Cuz I can’t handle anymore of these Graduate School / Post Graduate School style articles.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 7:40 PM

i read both Ace and HotAir, so I’m glad u2 aint in a p!ssing contest

Defector01 on November 2, 2006 at 7:42 PM

It doesn’t matter what you or Ace or I think about what Kerry said. Americans listened to what he said and they made a judgement call. For most it was a slap at the military.

Good for us, bad for them.

Let’s stop looking a gift horse in the mouth. (no pun intended there)

Rightwingsparkle on November 2, 2006 at 7:43 PM

If he starts to spit in his hand…run like Hell.

Heh. That’s great.

Or it would be…if I had seen the movie. Because, you know, I didn’t of course.

Da**it!

BTW, Allah – what’s the rules on dirty cussin’? Has the Boss relaxed the standards a bit?

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:43 PM

Kerry was giving a standard admonition Libs give all the time. It’s the equivalent of “eat your veggies.” He didn’t even realize the admonition was a insult. He’s never thought of it that way. I’ve heard that admonition countless times in the last 40 years here in Massachusetts. So, did he intend it to be a smear? No. But he said what he meant and meant what he said and it is a deep insult.

TheBigOldDog on November 2, 2006 at 7:43 PM

kerry didn’t make two jokes about bush.

he made one joke about bush being in denial. he made another joke about how republicans in general want to “turn back the clock”.

so, one bush mention. and it wasn’t the context. the context was that he then put on a frowny face, and verbally signalled a change in tone, saying, “we’re here to talk about education, but i wanted to say something before. he delivered his remark and proceeded to discuss the election as having serious implications as a referendum on iraq.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 7:44 PM

AP, you’re still a righty.

I think if you had done a demographic sampling of commenters on this topic, it’d show that the closer a person is to the military the more likely they’d be to have taken Kerry’s remarks as bashing the troops on the ground.

Since you think that’s an incorrect interpretation, Kerry must be right, we are dumb. Oh wait, you say Kerry really meant Bush, so it’s just you that thinks we’re dumb.

Ok, I got it now.

Freelancer on November 2, 2006 at 7:45 PM

Two points…. he was talking to a freindly audience… College students who are probably not only anti Bush, but anti war… you know… the whole stupid military thing would be right in line for them….

and…. he was talking to a freindly audience. I really don’t think he expected this to get out. It almost didn’t. The story was apparently initialy spread by ONE reporter and posted on their website… no one else really picked up on what was said…. I think Kerry thought he could get a pass on what was an insult to the troops.

Romeo13 on November 2, 2006 at 7:45 PM

You know, you can’t spell “blogwars” without “blow.”

dorkafork on November 2, 2006 at 7:45 PM

In looking at the context of Kerry’s statement, I think his use of Iraq was in reference to the president. I’m not trying to let him off the hook here.

I work in higher education, and there’s a conceit among those in academia that unless you hold some sort of degree, you will end up doing menial work or in a place that you don’t choose. Kerry holds that conceit, I think, and telling a group of college students that if they didn’t get a degree, they would end up like the president was the worst insult he could think of.

In making this statement, though, he ended up insulting two groups of people – the military and those without college degrees.

He’s not a good politician.

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:49 PM

It’s a war of words, fer sure!

SouthernGent on November 2, 2006 at 7:49 PM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

Allahpundit on November 2, 2006 at 7:51 PM

Can we get back to the good gay, please?

(Fairly SFW)

Editor on November 2, 2006 at 7:51 PM

Given AP’s and Ace’s recent non-endorsements of the GOP I guess it’s probably better they, uhm, keep spending their time in Blogwars rather than in commenting on Republican contenders.

Niko on November 2, 2006 at 7:52 PM

If he starts to spit in his hand…run like Hell.

Heh. That’s great.

Or it would be…if I had seen the movie. Because, you know, I didn’t of course.

NooOnooo you didn’t SEE it…
Come on, we all cried the first time…..who’s with me??

seejanemom on November 2, 2006 at 7:52 PM

I’m with Ace on this Kerry issue, and with Allah on the Webb one. If I were a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, I’d say that I often agree with both of you. But I’m not.

sandberg on November 2, 2006 at 7:53 PM

He’s not a good politician.

That has to be the shortest and clearest account of John Kerry’s woes I’ve ever seen.

The Apologist on November 2, 2006 at 7:55 PM

I’m with Ace on this Kerry issue, and with Allah on the Webb one. If I were a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, I’d say that I often agree with both of you. But I’m not.

Dude, this thread is about asses, not glasses…..

seejanemom on November 2, 2006 at 7:56 PM

Eh, it doesn’t matter what you or I think he said, AP… it matters what most people think he said. and a lot of people seem pretty pissed about it.

RiverCocytus on November 2, 2006 at 7:56 PM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

You didn’t call him a brown-shirt, Nazi, or racist..which is the banter I’m used to with disagreements in the blogosphere. Good old fashioned intellectualism so far.

StoutRepublican on November 2, 2006 at 7:57 PM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

Well, if nothing else, you boys sure found a way to make the time pass.

Seriously, I think it’s okay.

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:57 PM

I think it’s far, far easier to express something you believe — something negative about a group — through this sort of insult-by-implication than you might through positive declaration. Which is why I find it relatively easy to believe Kerry did speak the words that were, in effect, political suicide — because like the guy who praises the academic dedication of Asians and Jews, he didn’t think about the negative embedded, inextricably, in his positive statement.

Ace gets it…

TheBigOldDog on November 2, 2006 at 7:57 PM

OMG, this is not the Zapruder film guys.

Valiant on November 2, 2006 at 7:58 PM

Occam’s razor.
Kerry insulted the troops. He has maligned the military in the past, leveraged it into a political career and continues to use the meme.
It’s absurd to have four or five different versions of a prepared text. There is a text or there is not. He read it right or he read it wrong. With various versions floating around to confuse the issue, the original text is plainly not fit for public scrutiny. To justify himself by saying he meant to say that President Bush is stupid, he smears and denigrates the Commander-in-Chief and therefore the military. Back to square one: Disrespects our fighting men and women in uniform and thinks all their efforts on behalf of our nation are the acts of morons.
Iraq is one of several theatres of war, not a war in itself. Our military understands that, but the Left as a whole does not. It is ignorant about the ways and means of warfare.

naliaka on November 2, 2006 at 7:58 PM

I’m on your side AP. Of course it’s about context. With Kerry, these things have to be taken case-by-case because he has a history of denegrating the military. Even with the “Tony Snow” scenario, it’s important to consider the source. You could say his comment (in this instance) wasn’t directed at the military. It doesn’t change the fact that Kerry seems to take a negative view of the military overall; again, because of his history.

thedecider on November 2, 2006 at 7:59 PM

Nerds.

p0s3r on November 2, 2006 at 8:05 PM

“Prostate Panties.”

Wear ‘em at the doctor’s office and freak your physician out.

ccwbass on November 2, 2006 at 8:05 PM

12 seconds is a lot. imagine 12 seconds of him standing there saying nothing. count them out.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 8:08 PM

Eh, as long as we can all agree John Kerry is a moron, and that his moronness is representative of Democrats as a whole, what difference do the details make? :-)

Karol on November 2, 2006 at 8:14 PM

Did this post come off okay?

your premises and conclusions are exactly wrong. i think its one for the round file.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 8:14 PM

Context does matter, and how you hear Kerry’s remark depends almost entirely on what context is preeminent in your mind: his history of being a troop-smearing douchebag or the remarks that immediately preceded his comment plus his antagonism towards Bush plus the fact that not even Kerry’s so stupid as to insult the troops the week before an election plus, ironically, the fact that Ace is right about Bush-bashing being so prevalent in left-wing speeches. That’s where he loses me. Democrats do nothing but deride Bush in their speeches, so when an oblique remark is made that could be interpreted as deriding Bush — we’re not supposed to interpret it that way?

The problem is, you have to accept Kerry’s bogus after the fact explanation to bring in that “context” of bashing Bush rather than the troops. And again, he’s talking education to college students. He’s talking about school work… not studying the Middle East before going to Iraq. Come on.

And if that was what was written in his speech, he chose to personalize it so he wouldn’t sound like he was reading, but because the speech was written by someone else and he was in a friendly Democratic audience, he saw nothing wrong with what he said and assumed he was paraphrasing the scripted line. As a career politician, he had to have understood what he said, and like I said earlier to day, he’s have immediately clarified if he thought he’d said anything wrong. It was only by luck that this story even made it out. Just because one radio guy happened to catch it on the local TV news where they just played it like a normal campaign soundbyte, unaware that there was anything controversial about it. Luckily the radio station was recording the program, he extracted the soundbyte and here we are today.

I got bored in the middle of this post…

RightWinged on November 2, 2006 at 8:23 PM

oh and all the fauxmosexual references between you and Ace are getting a little frightening AP. You’re giving Mark Foley such a raging clue.

RightWinged on November 2, 2006 at 8:24 PM

Eh, as long as we can all agree John Kerry is a moron…

i’d rather we can agree that, when a progressive gets before an audience and states in stark terms that he believes there is a corelation between lack of education and military service, that progressive believes that there is a corelation between lack of education and military service.

i know i’ve moved way out into “truther” “nutroots” territory with that one, but there you have it. i’m faaar ooouut that way.

i’m so unhinged that sometimes, when i’m looking for the definition of a word, i use a totally nutty source like a dictionary.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 8:24 PM

Even giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt, that the “prepared remarks” were the real joke, that Bush was the target– even that joke relies on the troops being morons for the setup.

First you say: study hard or you’ll “get stuck in Iraq…”. Hehehe, mild laughter, everybody gets it.

Then– POW!– “just ask Bush.”

Bringin’ down the house, Kerry style.

So, you see, now there’s two different ways to dislike him.

a4g on November 2, 2006 at 8:25 PM

i swear. when it comes to simple epistemology, conservatives are like a beaten wife who insists that her progressive husband loves her because he tells her his beatings are an expression of love while he’s beating her.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 8:37 PM

Seriously though, everybody here at HotAir has your back, AP. Except for the kooks.

There. I said it.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 7:33 PM

Ha!! EFG couldn’t you have used better words, or are you following up on the previous few posts. Is it the words, or the context we should analyze.

I still think Kerry meant it as a joke and wrote it out as a joke, but under stress he choked and mashed his words and it became a Fruedian slip. This is how he feels, history has born that out. It may not be what he wanted to say, but it is not inconsistant with the feelings he has conveyed for the past 25+ years. Both of you are right, hopefully far right.

And I wrote yesterday and the day before, where is Nancy?

right2bright on November 2, 2006 at 8:38 PM

AP,

I think what you said last is the final verdict:

“Kerry’s comment was directed at Bush and the troops.”

Kerry made the joke about getting educated to avoid having to go into the military for being a dummy and thus ending up in Bush’s war in Iraq.

Kerry smeared Bush via the troops. That’s the final word.

Hey AP, how about we call for Kerry to provide evidence of:

1. The existence of any “prepared remarks”.
2. Any evidence of Kerry using this particular joke “all the time” as claimed through Huffington Post earlier.

If neither can be presented by Kerry, then his folks were lying and thus the remarks he made were precisely what he intended.

Seixon on November 2, 2006 at 8:54 PM

Couldn’t you two have made your spat a little…shorter? Between ace’s 2600 words and your 864, I’m tired out just reading the debate.

Slublog on November 2, 2006 at 7:35 PM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

Allahpundit on November 2, 2006 at 7:51 PM

Should have stuck to the bar napkin rule.

BlueStateBlues on November 2, 2006 at 9:02 PM

Ha!! EFG couldn’t you have used better words, or are you following up on the previous few posts. Is it the words, or the context we should analyze.

right2bright on November 2, 2006 at 8:38 PM

Dude, I don’t know. This whole thing is making my head hurt. After reading Ace and AP go back and forth about all of that, I have no freakin’ idea who is right and who is wrong.

I feel like one of the dumb animals in that book “Animal Farm.” When the smart pigs would argue, they would just just look at whoever was talking and agree, going back and forth.

Those two can create go create post grad theseis all night if they want.

Me, I’m just gonna say “Four legs good, two legs bad.”

Or am I supposed to say “Four legs good, two legs better?”

I don’t know anymore.

All I know is Kerry is a tool.
I like Budweiser.
When I was a teenager, I used to watch scrambled softcore porn, cuz I was a desperate sad excuse.

And let’s face it. I’d still be watching scrambled softcore porn except I don’t have cable, and there are plenty of free XXX porn sites political sites to spend my time on.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 9:02 PM

test

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 9:05 PM

i swear. when it comes to simple epistemology, conservatives are like a beaten wife who insists that her progressive husband loves her because he tells her his beatings are an expression of love while he’s beating her.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 8:37 PM

Some of them certainly are. Time for them to wake up and fight back instead of willingly taking the beatings.

thirteen28 on November 2, 2006 at 9:09 PM

AP and Ace, watch out, you might be outed by Corn tomorrow and create a newscycle.

Entelechy on November 2, 2006 at 9:11 PM

Hmmmm. I have a comment that was submitted, but it looks like it is caught in the moderation filter.

The comment had the word “soft core porn” in it. (don’t ask)

I’m wondering if certain words or links trigger this.

I’m wondering if there are certain words that should be avoided, or spell out differently, like p0rn.

Just curious, cuz it always causes a bit of freak out at my end whenever a comment get stuck.

EFG on November 2, 2006 at 9:11 PM

First you mentionBill Clinton and pulloutin the same sentence, now this. I’ll have to erase my url history for sure.

jeffNWV on November 2, 2006 at 9:13 PM

Since Ace had links to Lindsey Lohan and Cindy Margolis naked on his site, i’m on his side. If Allah can do better, i’ll reconsider.

Scot on November 2, 2006 at 9:19 PM

Geez, isn’t it enough that Kerry scrood the pooch to the point where the mainstream media HAD to notice? Why disect the whys and wherefores any further? I’m just dancin’ in the street over the fact that finally, Kerry is total toast. One down, Hillary to go!!!

SEgerton on November 2, 2006 at 9:23 PM

Just because someone starts a speech with a joke doesn’t mean that the context of their speech is about the same subject matter as the joke. By your reasoning Allah, the speech should have been about living in Texas, or living in California, or living in a state of denial or whatever. But it wasn’t, it was about education, and a joke about where President Bush is living has nothing to do with education.

Troy Rasmussen on November 2, 2006 at 9:25 PM

Looks like Charles has (kinda) entered the fray.

Scot on November 2, 2006 at 9:25 PM

I think both explanations are plausible, but the common interpretation – refering to the troops – is the more probable. Yes, he made a joke about Bush shortly prior to the statement. There was, however, a clear delineation – the joke, a greeting (“I’m glad to be here with you — I really am. Thank you for the privilege of coming here.”) and then his now famous sagely advice.

Without the greeting in the middle, I’d say no contest – it would an unambiguous dig at the president. As it stands, the lack of evidence of a prepared transcript of what he “meant to say” says “cockamamie cover your ass explanation” to me.

Really, though, it’s all immaterial. Even if the remard was an innocent dig at the president, his classless response to what he said is damning enough to him. And all of it is irrelevent since it’s not 2004 and neither of them are on the ticket.

wdomburg on November 2, 2006 at 9:26 PM

OK, so I’m still confused…..context or not…

If we go with the Kerry re-write, what did he mean? If you don’t get educated and work hard, then you can go to an Ivy League school, own a baseball team, go on to be President and THEN (because you are so stupid), get us stuck in Iraq?

Huh? If that’s what’s in store for uneducated boobs, I choose to be lazy!

TwoCents on November 2, 2006 at 9:30 PM

I’m getting him one of these for his birthday.

My Christmas gift decisions are made–at least for all the fellas on my list.

Perfect. :)

Bob's Kid on November 2, 2006 at 9:41 PM

Face it Allah, you’re wrong.

Kerry isn’t sorry. Never was. Never will be.

He meant to say that our troops were terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night.

He meant to say that a volunteer military would be filled with poor brown and black troops.

He meant to say that the troops in Vietnam were cutting off limbs, ears, burning villages in the style of JenJis Khan.

He means what he says, until it turns into a politically expedient necessity to say the opposite, as in this siutation.

Kerry is a disgrace to the uniform and should resign. He may have intended to take a swipe at Bush, but in doing so, he MEANT to take a swipe at the troops as well.

Ace is right.

webproze on November 2, 2006 at 9:43 PM

Update: Jim Webb just e-mailed me to say that we could heal this rift if I’d just take Ace, turn him upside down, and — you know.

I may not have a clear mental picture of how that works, but it seems like it would widen “the rift.”

Oh, you said “upside down,” and I understood you to mean “face down.” Now I see the relevance of Jim Webb to this. You homosexualists are so hard to figure out.

Kralizec on November 2, 2006 at 9:55 PM

Allah, as long as you keep reminding yourselves of those 3 oh-so-important words, all is good…

Like a viking.”

DaveS on November 2, 2006 at 9:55 PM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

Allahpundit on November 2, 2006 at 7:51 PM

It was laugh-out-loud funny. I don’t think either of you has wandered off into Commissar Land yet.

Kralizec on November 2, 2006 at 10:10 PM

Love ya Allah, but I’m with Ace on this one.

I’d bet most of the military are too :) (at least everyone of them I’ve talked to are)

LordNazh on November 2, 2006 at 10:44 PM

AP, you know I agree with you on the Kerry thing and I do think people are making more of it than it is. Still, it’s election time and dumb statements followed by even dumber statements are fair game.

Benaiah on November 2, 2006 at 11:41 PM

In case no one saw it.

The article above is a perfect satire of Kerry’s attitude and why Ace is correct. IMO

F15Mech on November 2, 2006 at 11:45 PM

here is the link BTW

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/weinreb110206.htm

F15Mech on November 2, 2006 at 11:46 PM

F15Mech, thanks for the link. That was too funny.

I would never do that; I’M JOHN KERRY

“…and I went to Vietnam; I report for duty.”

Entelechy on November 2, 2006 at 11:59 PM

Democrats do nothing but deride Bush in their speeches, so when an oblique remark is made that could be interpreted as deriding Bush — we’re not supposed to interpret it that way?

This is where Ace torpedoes his own argument.

Mark Jaquith on November 3, 2006 at 12:05 AM

Ooh. I love it when you and Ace do the whole chest thumping thing. It’s like, so hot.

JM Hanes on November 3, 2006 at 12:23 AM

I honestly don’t think his comments should be relevant unless he’s your senator (or he runs for president again). I think they become relevant because my fellow Americans don’t seem to have a high tolorance for delving into issues and would rather decide whether to vote for congressman A or B based solely on which party was the last to have a scandal.

My personal opinion on Kerry’s remarks:

I think he said what he meant to say. I’ve certainly heard plenty of other liberals make similar comments about the military. It’s one of those things they take as God-given…well…not God-given…..how about…Nature-given? truth (such as “Poverty can be cured if we throw more money at it.” and “Everyone else will disarm if the US will disarm first.”). They think the only way you end up in the military is if you’re too dumb to get out of it.

However, if he had simply done the politically expedient thing and given a ‘sincere’ and ‘heartfelt’ apology along the lines of, “I am very embarrassed and sorry that the statement came out like that. I misspoke and I am terribly sorry and don’t feel that way at all.” and blah blah blah, photo op, etc, the story would have quickly gone away.

John Kerry is an idiot for issuing a non-apology that allowed this to be turned into a story.

Thank god for idiots like Kerry.

JadeNYU on November 3, 2006 at 2:22 AM

The end of the affair.

Too bad, you two were a cute couple.

EF on November 3, 2006 at 8:28 AM

So let me ask my fellow righties — assuming I’m still allowed to call myself a righty, given some of the remarks being tossed around in Ace’s comments.

Allah, while I disagree with you on this one, I can’t imagine anyone here would have any right to deny you the right to call yourself a righty (I don’t believe it’s possible for me to fit another “right” in there).

My beef with the whole thing is that as you yourself pointed out, many on the Left believe he said the very same thing his “botched” joke actually said. And to be honest, even when considering the context, I believe the statement makes more sense if you believe it is about the troops.

Bush went to Yale and received higher grades than Kerry did. And to tell kids that if they’re “lazy” they can end up like Bush, well, it’s just stupid.

I can see that it’s like he meant to insult Bush, but I believe he was too irresponsible in his comment. Either he didn’t think about the troops when making that comment or as Ace said intentionally wanted to slyly insult them.

Either way, I believe he deserves the consequences his “joke” have brought upon him.

Esthier on November 3, 2006 at 8:52 AM

He didn’t mean to say it. But he does believe it.

Christopher Fotos on November 3, 2006 at 9:28 AM

I’m not sure he wants Hot Air anywhere near his back.

seejanemom on November 3, 2006 at 9:44 AM

Did this post come off okay? I don’t want it to seem antagonistic. This is all in good fun on my end.

Allahpundit on November 2, 2006 at 7:51 PM

Not antagonistic at all. So, who gets to keep the Miata and the Mapplethorpe portraits?

Kid from Brooklyn on November 3, 2006 at 9:58 AM

Allah & Ace, you’re both right; the words are important as is the context. I believe, given the context of the speech, that Kerry meant to imply that Bush is stuck in Iraq. However, given what we know of Kerry’s attitudes toward the military, the words he said were a true indication of his feelings. It was like a Freudian Slip; he didn’t say what he meant to say, but said what he meant on a whole other level.

I call it a draw. Let’s put our underwear back on!

DR Good on November 3, 2006 at 10:47 AM

I think Allah is hearing too much pillow talk from KP.

He needs to go home to Bethany.

dinasour on November 3, 2006 at 10:50 AM

Just kidding. I thought Ace’s response deserved a link after I accused him of being in “nutroots territory” last night, which was in turn a response to him implying that I was “crazy” for thinking Kerry’s remark might have been aimed at Bush and not the military.

Allah is right. Kerry’s comments where intended to be aimed at Bush.

However, what Kerry actually said is not what he intended. What Kerry actually said was indeed a direct attack on the military. Words that fall right in line with Kerry’s history of attacking the military.

I don’t care what Kerry wants me to think he really thinks he intended to say. If that is what he wanted to say, then that is what he should have said.

I do know that what he did say is way out of line for a Senator. Freudian slip, or not. Kerry owes us an honest apology, not the half-a$$ed excuses he’s offered so far.

Lawrence on November 3, 2006 at 11:22 AM

I am with Ace on this one.

Allah, Michell, Lets have a vote..Ah La INSTA style. I’d love to see the results.

My prediction….ACE in A Land Slide

Rustyw on November 3, 2006 at 11:22 AM

Allah,

Please seek divine inspiration from Uh…you’re self.

Rustyw on November 3, 2006 at 11:23 AM

A deity vs. a pirate, isn’t that a match to see?

Rustyw on November 3, 2006 at 11:41 AM

Allah, though it does have a bit of meat, your war of the [wussies] has not crossed the line, particularly with your funny additional updates.

FWIW, I don’t think it is contradictory to believe that Kerry intended to insult Bush in that particular comment AND that his parapraxis is revealing of his thought patterns and private opinions. In fact, it seems to be the most reasonable option.

Thanks to Entelechy for teaching me the word “parapraxis”. :)

Kevin on November 3, 2006 at 2:33 PM

He said what he said. He failed to apologize. Instead it is we that cant understand.

Personally either way is a lack of respect and deserving of contempt.

I approve these remarks by WebProze

Kerry isn’t sorry. Never was. Never will be.

He meant to say that our troops were terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night.

He meant to say that a volunteer military would be filled with poor brown and black troops.

He meant to say that the troops in Vietnam were cutting off limbs, ears, burning villages in the style of JenJis Khan.

He means what he says, until it turns into a politically expedient necessity to say the opposite, as in this siutation.

Kerry is a disgrace to the uniform and should resign. He may have intended to take a swipe at Bush, but in doing so, he MEANT to take a swipe at the troops as well.

Finally Allah’s position is swayed by his intellectual entnaglement with KP. In drawing her to our side he has felt the taint of the moonbats….heh

MarkB on November 3, 2006 at 3:22 PM

Update: Jim Webb just e-mailed me to say that we could heal this rift if I’d just take Ace, turn him upside down, and — you know.

Whoa there, cowboys. Let’s not make this one of “them” sites.

Rick on November 3, 2006 at 3:45 PM