Video: Kerry’s speech at the Angelides event, uncut(?)

posted at 9:10 pm on November 1, 2006 by Allahpundit

I don’t know for sure that it’s uncut but it looks that way.

The pertinent material comes right at the beginning. He takes the podium at 1:30, delivers a pair of feeble Bush jokes, then seems to transition into the serious part of his speech — which is immediately followed by the “education” line at 2:15.

Reluctant verdict: inconclusive. But judge for yourself. Click the image to watch.

jfk-angelides.jpg

Update: Dafydd ab Hugh agrees that it was a joke — a joke Kerry was directing at U.S. troops, not George Bush.

It was a “blooper,” says Dean-o.

Update: The boss agrees with Dafydd that Waffles’s delivery was too smooth to have been “botched.” She thinks he said exactly what he meant to say. It’s possible, although even as delivered, the line could be construed as a reference to Bush. James Lileks, to take just one example, heard it that way.

Of course, this doesn’t explain why Waffles’s version of what he meant to say keeps changing.

Update: Patterico thinks Kerry was making fun of Bush.

Update: Apparently I’m “crazy” for believing that Kerry’s remark might have been aimed squarely at Bush and not at Bush by way of American soldiers:

[W]hen Kerry says “make yourself smart or get educated, or you get stuck in Iraq,” he’s not offering Iraq up as a good place ot be. He intends, of course, to mean Iraq as a threat held out to those who don’t “make themselves smart and get educated” — and that is an indirect swipe at Bush (because Bush made Iraq so bad, so now you live in danger of being sent there if you don’t de-retardify yourself).

Yes, he does mean it, as he means everything, as ultimately a crack about Bush. But he was, in fact, talking about our soldiers — or rather, urging students to study up and not end up like our stupid, uneducated soldiers, winding up in Bush’s unilateral war of choice.

The best evidence we have of what he meant is the context. The context had to do with Bush. Ace ignores that to focus on the Larger Truth: that Democrats generally and Kerry specifically are, always and in every context, troop-haters, and what’s more are so fervent in that hatred that they’d be willing to voice it a week before an election. Never mind the dozen or so, including Murtha, who criticized Kerry for what he said. That’s just politics. They all hate the troops, they’re just afraid of the political consequences of saying so.

Once you’ve made that move — they believe X, and if they say they don’t believe it, they’re lying — you’re in nutroots territory.

So yeah, I think it’s inconclusive. But if I had to bet, I’d bet with Lileks and Patterico that he meant it as a dig at Bush and no one else. This was his clumsy way of saying, “Bush mismanaged the war because he’s a moron who never studied.” He should have been more specific but he wasn’t because he’s a clod. Surprise.

Update: The latest Bleat is up. Emphasis mine:

It’s possible to view this outside of what people think Kerry has expressed before – gaffe-wise, sometimes a cigar is just a cigre. I mean zagar. I meant cigar, and it’s clear I meant cigar, and I will not sit here and have my spelling challenged by people who never correctly rattled off the letters in “antidisestablishmentarianism” while half in the bag on a bet in college. In any case, I don’t have any Outrage over the matter because I don’t particularly care what Sen. Kerry says, and don’t see him as a relevant actor in modern politics. I understand why great amounts of hay is being thrashed over the matter, this being an election season. I understand how some are using the gaffe to draw attention to a greater point re: the hard left’s attitudes towards the military, but if that wasn’t actually the point Kerry was making then I can’t jump on board and affirm the greater point. That smacks of fake-but-accurate.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Liked how in her introduction Barbara Boxer referred to Kerry as being “articulate.”

asc85 on November 1, 2006 at 9:15 PM

Speaking of botched…

George Bush must be stopped! Oh …and by the way …buy my book!

The Ugly American on November 1, 2006 at 9:26 PM

That was no botched joke. You know, I have recently decided I do not like the word “botch” any more. Can’t imagine why.

CrimsonFisted on November 1, 2006 at 9:31 PM

He said what he meant to- there’s no expression of “oops” or surprise on his face. He waits for the applause, then moves on. I think it’s more a consequence of his age, his experience with the draft and quality of Army inductees, and the whole Vietnam experience. He hasn’t moved on, and really doesn’t get it. And besides, with all the multiple excuses and versions of what he “intended” to say, how can anyone believe them to be anything but lame excuses? He botched the CYA too.

Scotsman on November 1, 2006 at 9:39 PM

Kerry makes some lame jokes about Republicans and the President. He thanks the people for inviting him there but then he pauses and says, “Were here to talk about education. . .” and launches into his razor-sharp barb about our military. I don’t think there is any way that his comments about the President can be connected to his comments about the troops. It seems to me that the jokes about the President were an icebreaking intro to the speech, but his comments beginning with education are the actual speech.

Troy Rasmussen on November 1, 2006 at 9:40 PM

No way am I wasting 15 minutes of my life on this ‘joke’.

When someone edits it down the relevant part, maybe.

Ugly on November 1, 2006 at 9:41 PM

No way am I wasting 15 minutes of my life on this ‘joke’.

When someone edits it down the relevant part, maybe.

Ugly on November 1, 2006 at 9:41 PM

After 5 mins, I wanted to pull him out of the screen.

Ouabam on November 1, 2006 at 9:55 PM

This is well worth a read, an outsiders perspective, from the Telegraph (UK):

Kerry is not as smart as he thinks

Some excerpts:

Many people in Washington have similar DYKWIA – Don’t You Know Who I Am? – anecdotes about Kerry that reveal his narcissistic conceit that it is all about him, all the time. This trait is the key to the kerfuffle over Kerry’s comment at a California rally that: “Education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

The words were clumsy and, yes, an insult to American troops. I have no doubt that he didn’t mean to say that US soldiers in Iraq are dumb cannon fodder but that’s what came out. He was trying to say that Bush was stupid (though the Texan’s grade-point average at Yale was higher than that of Kerry) – a jibe that plays well in Europe but not in much of Middle America…

It would have been a minor blip in the final week of the campaign if he had apologised immediately and unequivocally and got the hell off the airwaves.

Instead, he wriggled and huffed and hit back and compounded his mistake with intemperate bad-mouthings of Republicans as “assorted Right-wing nut jobs” and “hacks who’ve never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did”. Having been, in his view, misrepresented by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in the 2004 presidential race and berated by his own party for not hitting back hard enough, Kerry went for the jugular. But his desire not to be “Swift Boated” (the attacks were so successful they coined a verb) and lack of political judgment meant that this time he overreacted.

To the delight of Republican strategists, as dawn broke across America yesterday, there he was on the Don Imus radio talk show quibbling about his “botched joke”. This time, it wasn’t so much what the meaning of “is is”, as Bill Clinton famously ventured during the Lewinsky scandal as what the meaning of “us is”. According to Kerry, “I left out the word ‘us’. ‘They got us stuck.’ Instead of that, I said, ‘They got stuck’, and they’re taking advantage of it.” They are indeed taking advantage of it. With a week to go before the mid-term elections and Democrats poised to win the 15 seats they need to win back the House of Representatives – and perhaps even the six to bag the Senate – Republicans were praying for an “October surprise”.

Kerry left it late, until Halloween, but the Grand Old Party was not about to look this gift horse in the mouth. On the 2000 campaign trail, Bush told me that politics was “like judo – you use your opponent’s energy to your advantage”. A gaffe by a politician only has real legs when it reinforces an existing perception. And so it has been in this case. Kerry has long had a reputation as a haughty Boston Brahmin, a privileged, elitist, condescending careerist who cannot relate to ordinary Americans.

TheBigOldDog on November 1, 2006 at 9:56 PM

My vote: He told the joke the way it was intended. It seems even clearer when you see the introl

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 1, 2006 at 9:59 PM

That’s my take on it, too, Attila.

Michelle on November 1, 2006 at 10:03 PM

He told the joke the way it was intended. And should fire his speechwriters. And then resign. That’s my take.

Bryan on November 1, 2006 at 10:14 PM

I agree, Bryan.

Christoph on November 1, 2006 at 10:15 PM

He told the joke the way it was intended.

I think that’s probably right. I think he just intended it for Bush.

Allahpundit on November 1, 2006 at 10:16 PM

Allah, if he told the joke the way it was intended, the punch line is clearly not a Bush-is-dumb line. Getting stuck in Iraq is the fate of people who don’t work hard, etc. Plays into the Dems’ view of military folk as people who had no other option.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on November 1, 2006 at 10:19 PM

Getting stuck in Iraq is the fate of people who don’t work hard, etc.

Yeah, he meant Bush. He was speaking politically. He was at a political event, was he not?

Allahpundit on November 1, 2006 at 10:20 PM

What an amateurish event, by the way. I mean, the backdrop was cheesy looking, Kerry actually had to make his entrance through the audience, and “Start Me Up” as the intro music? That is so ’90s …

Ali-Bubba on November 1, 2006 at 10:22 PM

So you’ve gone from inconclusive to “it was definitely about Bush” now. What was the tipping point?

Bryan on November 1, 2006 at 10:24 PM

Funny he was described as an “articulate and clear voice” in the intro, considering now he’s claiming that he “botched” a “joke.”

SisterToldjah on November 1, 2006 at 10:25 PM

A Fox news commentator brought up his grades to prove who–Bush or Kerry–did better in college. His best score was in French, which is obvious. Kp advice on apology was the track. Well, he tried to prove that there is smart and Kerry Smart

Ouabam on November 1, 2006 at 10:27 PM

The event was for a loser and clearly celebrated a loser. That intro was pukey. Kerry probably doesn’t get such accolades at home any more.

He said what he said (and none of us get the chance to scoop our words back or change their intent), but assuming that Allah is right, it would still be a stupid statement and a trashy one, not at all presidential.

TheBigOldDog, a big, big THANK YOU for the link. I cried while reading parts of the article. Extremely profound, especially coming from the outside.

Entelechy on November 1, 2006 at 10:29 PM

That was no joke. Just look at his face. He gives a faint, quck smirk only after the audience responds – very different from his obvious jokes he open with. That was an admonition. The same one Libs have been telling to kids here in MA since the late sixties.

TheBigOldDog on November 1, 2006 at 10:30 PM

Ok here is the problem with it “being a blooper”…

In addressing the crowd he states…

“…as YOU all know President Bush lives in the State of Texas…”

He is clearly addressing the crowd with the word you

After that he then transfers to his main speech about education and continues to refer to the crowd as you when he said the now famous line…

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

My personal opinion is that it was a Freudian slip on Kerry’s part.

He attempted to insult President Bush but his lips moved faster then his brain and he said what he really thought not what he was supposed to say.

Because of his past history this Vet is not going to give him a pass.

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:31 PM

So you’ve gone from inconclusive to “it was definitely about Bush” now. What was the tipping point?

I didn’t say it was “definitely” about Bush. I do think it’s inconclusive, but I’m playing devil’s advocate in the comments here a bit. If I had to bet one way or another, yeah, I’d bet he was talking about Bush. Even this troop-smearing moron is bright enough to know you don’t attack American soldiers the week before an election.

Allahpundit on November 1, 2006 at 10:35 PM

Here is how Kerry should haved replied BTW

I am sorry about the bold I messed up. I forgot to close the strong tag in my post. Please forgive me.

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:35 PM

He attempted to insult President Bush but his lips moved faster then his brain …

Another botox-induced tragedy.

Ali-Bubba on November 1, 2006 at 10:36 PM

I’m playing devil’s advocate in the comments here a bit.

BLOGGER ADMITS SATANIC INFLUENCE

Ali-Bubba on November 1, 2006 at 10:38 PM

Zzzzz…Zzzzz…Zzzzz

I swear that man could suck the life out of a Miss America contestant.

SouthernGent on November 1, 2006 at 10:40 PM

TheBigOldDog, a big, big THANK YOU for the link. I cried while reading parts of the article. Extremely profound, especially coming from the outside.

My pleasure. I have to admit, my eyes welled up reading it. The part about Kerry is dead on. We have lots of stories like that here in MA.

TheBigOldDog on November 1, 2006 at 10:41 PM

I am sorry about the bold I messed up. I forgot to close the strong tag in my post. Please forgive me.

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:35 PM

Heh, you could have added “I will never, ever do it again”; and where was your ‘Bush-blame’ and ‘straw-men’ statement? :)

Entelechy on November 1, 2006 at 10:50 PM

Even this troop-smearing moron is bright enough to know you don’t attack American soldiers the week before an election.

Allahpundit on November 1, 2006 at 10:35 PM

And proof of that is WHERE?

Ugly on November 1, 2006 at 10:58 PM

Heh, you could have added “I will never, ever do it again”; and where was your ‘Bush-blame’ and ’straw-men’ statement? :)

Entelechy on November 1, 2006 at 10:50 PM

How is this?

The bold in my words were not mine; it is hotair just misrepresenting what I was saying.

If hotair had a preview pane then this would be a non-issue.

I am not going to apologize for any statements, by me, hotair takes out of context.

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:59 PM

The bold in my words were not mine; it is hotair just misrepresenting what I was saying.

If hotair had a preview pane then this would be a non-issue.

I am not going to apologize for any statements, by me, hotair takes out of context.

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:59 PM

Not sure about that, but yeah Hot Air needs a preview option.

Ugly on November 1, 2006 at 11:01 PM

And proof of that is WHERE?

I guess it would be where he said he “actually voted for the $84B before he voted against it.” No, that’s not it…

Well how about when he went windsurfing in speedos? No, that’s not it either…Bike riding in speedos then?

How about when he went into the store and asked, “Can I get me a huntin license here.” No, no, that can’t be it either.

I know, I know, when he put the bunny suit on and climbed through the tunnel. No? Put tan-in-can on and turned orange before a major debate?

Ok, I give up…

TheBigOldDog on November 1, 2006 at 11:08 PM

He was for the joke before he was against it.

Chuck on November 1, 2006 at 11:18 PM

You know what….I “thought” that he just screwed it up. Don’t get me wrong, “I’m sorry, I meant to say…blah blah blah”.

However, I was reminded about Farenheit 9/11 and something that our old friend Michael Moore had said.

“Most of them enlisted because it was about the only place to get a job or receive the guarantee of a college education.”

Considering that Michael Moore is so close to the NutRoots, I’m not so sure anymore.

John Kerry quoting Michael Moore??? Geez, what are the odds??? LOL!!!!

HarryStar on November 1, 2006 at 11:57 PM

Thanks for the context; now I understand. The nuanced smirk is because the slam is against the uneducated, the troops, and Bush; if one target calls him on it, he can claim one of the others was the target.

Passive-aggressive at its finest.

htom on November 2, 2006 at 12:18 AM

Passive-aggressive at its finest.

htom on November 2, 2006 at 12:18 AM

More like Stupid-Aggressive.

TheBigOldDog, I almost picked up where you ‘gave up’ but you’d done a perfect job and we all know; how we know.

Remember, though, he let us steel the 2004 election. Now, that’s really dumb and it all happened in one day (not 7 days ahead of an election). Being silly,

Entelechy on November 2, 2006 at 12:27 AM

nope.

sorry.

it wasn’t a third joke. he verbally signalled a change in tone, took it down and issued the remark as a serious statement. he used that serious statement to then segue into the importance and seriousness of the race.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 12:37 AM

The “context” was NOT Bush. The context was about education. The education of CHILDREN. Otherwise it makes him look even more foolish than he already is.

Gregor on November 2, 2006 at 12:42 AM

i can only blame myself if the analysis i spammed the threads with last night was unpersuasive.

but, good grief, the interpretation that kerry’s remark was solely and specificly referencing the troops was the same interpretation taken by a liberal blogger who blogged the event at 1:03 in the morning after attending it and hearing the entire speech in context, hours before the controversy blossomed. it was also the interpretation of the pasadena star reporter who covered the event.

this is the first reasonable interpretation. but i think i can identify why so many are having a hard time with it.

because the remark is intrinsicly insulting, it is being considered as if it were a mallicious wisecrack. this leads people down a path of considering why someone would issue a mallicious wisecrack against the troops. bush is safer. no one’s that stupid, and so follows their conclusions.

but the remark wasn’t meant as a wisecrack. it was meant as a bitter pill formulated to spur the audience to moral action – to strengthen education as an alternative to the predatory lure of recruiters.

this is exactly how it was interpreted by the progressive blogger attending the event, progressive posters in the youtube thread, progressive posters in various townhall threads, etc.

the mutually reenforcing conciets that military recruits are intellectually subpar and that the military is the leading predator of our nation’s stupid are profligate and comfortably shared amongst progressives.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 1:01 AM

Consider that it could be a classic Freudian slip. He meant to aim the joke at Bush, but then “botched” it in a way that revealed what he was realy thinking.

Karl on November 2, 2006 at 1:08 AM

The erudite senator was trying to teach us plebs the meaning of parapraxis.

Entelechy on November 2, 2006 at 1:35 AM

No way in hell he meant it as a swipe against the troops. It’s a classic “Bush is a failure who got poor grades and is poorly handling the Iraqi occupation” swipe, and he botched it by omitting a couple words (two would have done it). It followed another Bush joke, and a joke before that about Republicans.

Insulting the troops is not something that’s going to fly with the vast majority of American Democrats.

Mark Jaquith on November 2, 2006 at 1:51 AM

With the two jokes he opened with, he got good laughter from the crowd. After the “stuck in Iraq” statement, there was an uncomfortable silence and then a few people laughed, but not nearly as many as before. It seems many in the room realized right away what a boner he pulled.

There is some satisfaction that this means Kerry will never be President. This will stay with him like stink on sh*t.

Mallard T. Drake on November 2, 2006 at 2:17 AM

I don’t know what the pundits think. The crowd definitely thought this was a slam on the troops, you can tell by the moans mixed in with the half laughs.

Gwillie on November 2, 2006 at 2:21 AM

He was trying to scare students, influence them at the least.

Scare them of getting stuck in Iraq. People in the Kerry-friendly audience thought the same…

And if you hear gasps, maybe if you aren’t as nuanced as JFK, you stop and explain what you said…

He is a very stupid man.

benrand on November 2, 2006 at 2:30 AM

Insulting the troops is not something that’s going to fly with the vast majority of American Democrats.

Neither was going to ground for the last two months of a presidential election, but he did that anyway. Likewise, “I was for it before I was against it.”

Pablo on November 2, 2006 at 2:41 AM

I’m glad Michelle is around or else I’d think I was crazy here. You are crazy on this AP. By the way, why would Kerry post this? What other context does it provide? Outside of Boxer’s intro, I’ve seen the rest on Fox News. Of course they played the shorter clip probably 90% of the time, but I saw the entier thing including the “State of Texas/Denial” comment a number of times.

RightWinged on November 2, 2006 at 3:21 AM

The audience IS a major factor in determining the meaning of the words. They laughed gleefully at the “denial” joke, they laughed strongly at the “1958″ joke, they applauded the “special prosecutor” joke.

They chuckled politely and murmured at the “education” joke. Some coughed or gasped. If they had received it as a blast at Bush, they would have roared. His audience most certainly heard that line as a clear bash on the troops, and although many of them probably feel likewise, they know better than to give it too much energy.

Let’s talk about education. Let’s talk about what happens to you if you don’t get a good one. You get to go get shot at, or dodge IEDs, in Iraq.

Try as I might, I cannot hear another valid interpretation of his words, the one above comes through far too clearly. From there he launches into the diatribe about the White House lies, and he doesn’t mince words, he doesn’t use subtle inferences, he doesn’t leave his meaning ambiguous. He is, in Botox Boxer’s words, “clear” and “articulate”.

If what he wanted was for people to hear an attack on Bush, that’s what he should have proffered. Then to blame the reader/hearer of his words for how they were received was self-aggrandizing arrogance on ice.

Allah, I’m with Bryan on this one. I gess yoo can chock it up too us millutary tipes beeng two unn-edoocated too undrsatnd his sutilty.

Freelancer on November 2, 2006 at 5:38 AM

IMHO, this is a no brainer.

Lurch was speaking to students who he knows mostly have a poor perception of military service. It might be that he was supposed to make a joke at the Presidents expense, but I am certain that he felt that smearing our Heroes would go down better with these students, and thus he played to their prejudices.

Show me where he has encouraged students to sign up for military service, show me where he has spoken of all of the great experiences that he had as a serviceman, show me anything where he shines a positive light on our Military and I might change my mind. As Flipper has a looong history of maligning our Heroes I doubt that anyone can find such instances.

Democrats, in general, do not understand the military. They look at them as torturers, rapists, and believe that the only way to fix it is to get women, and gentler types drafted to serve. Indeed, as they have tried to make our military a great social experiment they have harmed it to no small degree, and that is just another reason why democrats must not be allowed to run America.

DannoJyd on November 2, 2006 at 6:52 AM

Insulting the troops is not something that’s going to fly with the vast majority of American Democrats.

Mark Jaquith on November 2, 2006 at 1:51 AM

Mark, he wasn’t speaking to the vast majority of Americans. He was speaking to students who are well known to be prejudiced against our military. Think about that, and look at Flippers history of bashing our troops. Does it now seem so unlikely?

DannoJyd on November 2, 2006 at 7:00 AM

Democrats are stuck on Vietnam, plain and simple. Everything is Vietnam to them, despite the fact that it was Democrats who started and escalated Vietnam into the mess it became.

Neo on November 2, 2006 at 7:50 AM

Well, it’s not over. The media is reporting more statements by Kerry from the past bashing the enlisted man’s intelligence.

EF on November 2, 2006 at 8:12 AM

You have to let go of the idea that this was an intentional slam at the troops. It wasn’t intended as an insult. He didn’t even realize it was an insult. It’s an old admonition like, “eat your vegetables so you’ll grow up to be big and strong.” That admonition is so ingrained into Liberal thought that they have forgotten there is another side to it which is an insult to the people serving.

TheBigOldDog on November 2, 2006 at 8:36 AM

Mr. Kerry opens with two lame Bush jokes…then he states:

“We’re here to talk about education…” and makes the Iraq statement. Sorry, AP, this strikes me as “new paragraph” and therefore a change of subject. This is a poke at the military. Sure, it’s a shot at Mr. Bush as well, in as much as he is the CIC. This comment was not directed at the president. It was plainly directed to the students as “if you fail to get an education, you will end up with the other failures in the military”.

Look, I’m not some english major trying to lecture anyone about the “nuances” of the language. I do, however, make my living using the written and spoken word. I am held to the statements I have made: they are recorded by a stenographer and a tape recorder and witnessed by a notary. It is my opinion that Mr. Kerry’s statements were not made with George Bush as the primary subject…but rather as his unvarnished opinion of our military.

Hey, I’d like to give the guy the benefit of a doubt, but he has made too many statements in the past that support the conclusion that he has nothing but disdain for the military. Too, he’s one of my senators.

We do try to be “fair” to the opposition…but just imagine if George Allen had made this comment!

dcs2244 on November 2, 2006 at 8:46 AM

Democrats are stuck on Vietnam, plain and simple. Everything is Vietnam to them, despite the fact that it was Democrats who started and escalated Vietnam into the mess it became.

Neo on November 2, 2006 at 7:50 AM

Until very recently in time the leftover late 60s hippies Democrats despised everything and everyone that had anything to do with Vietnam. There was no such thing as a military hero from the Vietnam War to these military establishment haters.

Not unexpectedly, they adjusted their thinking hoping to gain respect for their cowardly posturing on the war in Iraq, and put Vietnam vets like Kerry and Murtha up on a pedestal. Why? Because Kerry was morphing into a hopeless presidential candidate and Murtha resorted to bashing the troops in Iraq.

So while they call these two “their heroes” from the war that was lost because of the endless whining and protesting of liberals, they are only heroes to Democrats because of their disdain for the military.

To think otherwise is foolhearty.

fogw on November 2, 2006 at 9:07 AM

Its not the crime, its the coverup that takes you down. Kerry’s biggest blunder wasn’t uttering a Bushism, but his arrogance in injecting his supporting the military record into a debate where it didn’t need to be. The Dems are riding so high that Kerry thought he could try to fight the 2004 election battle all over again and win. Well, wrong again Lurch, you just Swift Boated yourself.

BohicaTwentyTwo on November 2, 2006 at 9:16 AM

The photo of the soldiers holding the banner is hilarious but not one msm has published it. Why?

EF on November 2, 2006 at 9:18 AM

It’s out there EF

GIS DROP SMART BOMB ON KERRY

TheBigOldDog on November 2, 2006 at 9:28 AM

The best evidence we have of what he meant is the context. The context had to do with Bush. Ace ignores that to focus on the Larger Truth: that Democrats generally and Kerry specifically are, always and in every context, troop-haters, and what’s more are so fervent in that hatred that they’d be willing to voice it a week before an election.

Amen.

Once you’ve made that move — they believe X, and if they say they don’t believe it, they’re lying — you’re in nutroots territory.

I agree 100%. Why can’t we just say “We accept Kerry’s apology, and we take him at his word that he meant to criticize the President and not the troops. Unfortunately, the interpretation that he was criticizing the troops would not have had merit if not for a number of disturbing statements made my Sen. Kerry in the past that seem to denigrate the brave men and women of the armed forces, such as…” etc. etc. How hard is that people?

You know the way liberals ignore the fact that everyone in the world believed Saddam had WMD in 2003 in order to fulfill the BUSH LIED theme? They do that because if Bush lied to us, than all those good-hearted liberals are totally justified in their righteous indignation. They choose to misinterpret events in exactly the way that makes them the Noble Resistance rather than accept the plainly obvious interpretation that EVERYONE WAS WRONG.

Because if everyone was wrong, then Bush isn’t so bad, he’s just wrong. But if HE LIED, then the nutroots claims of creeping facism are completely sensible.

If Kerry just made a stupid joke about Bush, then it just means he’s a clumsy jerk, which we already knew. If he was disparaging the troops, then it means we’ve been right all along about liberals hating America.

It’s always easier to believe what you want to believe, isn’t it?

Enrique on November 2, 2006 at 9:48 AM

I’m still convinced it was a dig at the military for (allegedly) exploiting the uneducated. AP is right though, once you start making assumptions about the other side and decide they are always true, you are no better than the nutroots.

starflyer on November 2, 2006 at 10:13 AM

Depends on what “is is”…

Kerry looked right at the papers on the podium, then made his ‘but I want to say something first’ comment. He said what HE wanted to say, no doubt about it. He meant what he said, thats how he views the military. Then he backpedaled HOURS later.
Thats how I saw it then, and now.

shooter on November 2, 2006 at 10:29 AM

I saw the video and it appeared the Bush jokes had subsided and the comment came out of the blue. Also notice that the crowd didn’t laugh nearly as much as the previous “jokes” about the president.

I think they took it as well that he was referring to the troops in his comment.

Just my opinion.

wdlp1965 on November 2, 2006 at 10:36 AM

The best evidence we have of what he meant is the context. The context had to do with Bush.

Respectfully disagree. The best indicator of what he meant is the internal logic of the “joke” itself.

To my (limited) way of thinking there are too many logical “dereferences” to be made in a “joke” that basically claims, if you graduate from Yale university with a better GPA than the joke-teller, and you end up President of the United States, that that’s somehow a bad outcome; and that, specifically, your political future (“stuck in Iraq”) is something worth directly relating to your (college-age) audience.

OTOH, it flows very easily (as easily as it rolled off Kerry’s tongue, in fact) that, if you *don’t* study hard or get good grades, you might not even graduate college (let alone Yale University), might not get a “real” job (let alone the U.S. presidency), and thus might have no “alternative” but to join the military (and end up “stuck in Iraq”).

RD on November 2, 2006 at 10:43 AM

It still doesn’t really tell me anything. I can only make an assumption that it was supposed to be a Bush joke. However given his past treatment of the troops a little Freudian slip managed to sneak by him.

Benaiah on November 2, 2006 at 10:45 AM

Insulting the troops is not something that’s going to fly with the vast majority of American Democrats.

Mark Jaquith on November 2, 2006 at 1:51 AM

But the people in attendance weren’t average Dems. They’re the vanguard, the true believers, so to speak. Kerry doesn’t hate the military any more or less than GWB. He is equally comfortable insulting either.

He was in front of a friendly (to him) crowd, and he probably didn’t consider beforehand the consequences of this line if it got out of the room. How amny times has he said this kind of line before in this campaign and it hadn’t been reported.

I acknowledge the possibility that Kerry might have meant to insult GWB with the remark (I personally think this is rather unlikely); but if so, he doesn’t have the facility with language that he thinks he has, because the clear initial implication is that the troops are uneducated, stupid, and trapped by circumstance into serving in an “illegal” war so they can get whatever government handouts are available in return. The Dems have always considered military spending to be a Republican welfare program to be offset by rampant spending for lefty causes elsewhere.

urbancenturion on November 2, 2006 at 10:52 AM

So AP thinks that Kerry was sincere and, as a professional, lifelong politician, “botched a joke” meant for President Bush.

I’m with RightWinged on this one: Thank God we have Michelle, Bryan, and Ian on this site, or I would think that this was liberal blog with AP’s comments. (AP is a good contraction, in more ways than one).

Notice that all the liberals on this site agree again vehemently with AP. I wonder why.

Here is a good rebuttal to AP’s idiotic stance that Kerry did not mean to insult the troops:

http://www.michellemalkin.com

januarius on November 2, 2006 at 11:12 AM

Actually, I was a little rude towards AllahPundit on my last post. He surely is taking the other side on the issue, solely to have comments that counter the liberal position, i.e. to make an interesting thread. However, if this article doesn’t convince him that Kerry was sincere about his comments, then I think AP is hopeless:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061102/D8L4QH580.html

januarius on November 2, 2006 at 11:22 AM

You have to let go of the idea that this was an intentional slam at the troops. It wasn’t intended as an insult. He didn’t even realize it was an insult. It’s an old admonition like, “eat your vegetables so you’ll grow up to be big and strong.” That admonition is so ingrained into Liberal thought that they have forgotten there is another side to it which is an insult to the people serving.

TheBigOldDog on November 2, 2006 at 8:36 AM

Absolutely. Given Kerry’s past statements, it’s clear that he has a pretty serious disdain for the troops (excluding those that later become part of the anti-war movement), and we know he has a political tin ear. Couple deeply ingrained disdain for the troops and a political tin ear, and it’s easy to see how he could have made an insulting statement without intending to or even believing that it could be taken that way.

It’s no different than some socially clueless dolt going oup to Rosie O’Donnell and saying “you don’t sweat much for a big girl, do you?” There may be no intent to insult, but the statement would be offensive (to Rosie anyway) nonetheless.

As far as this idea:

Once you’ve made that move — they believe X, and if they say they don’t believe it, they’re lying — you’re in nutroots territory.

… I say BS.

While not all democrats disrespect the troops, there are a number of prominent ones (e.g., Durbin, Kerry, Murtha, BigTits Kennedy) that have made extremely disrespectful statements in the past year, accusing them of war crimes, likening them to Nazis, accusing them of running a concentration camp at Abu Graihb, and so on. Your attempt to shame us out of this idea by equating us with nutroots for even having it, despite the writing that is clearly on the wall, is garbage.

Who are we going to believe – AllahPundit or our own, lying eyes?

Right.

thirteen28 on November 2, 2006 at 11:29 AM

Oh, and here’s another article that illuminates Kerry’s opinion of the troops, by the Associated (w/t) Press, no less. Money shot in the first paragraph:

WASHINGTON – During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to “the perpetuation of war crimes.”

thirteen28 on November 2, 2006 at 11:31 AM

“During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to “the perpetuation of war crimes.”

Now did he apologize for that one too, or did he say he was sorry if the underprivileged lacked the comprehension skills to understand his pretentious point of view?

fogw on November 2, 2006 at 11:35 AM

As a frequent speech-giver, who often works from a single script to present to various audiences – and making deviations suited to each crowd – it’s clear to me what happened here.

Kerry thought it was appropriate to tailor a comment about education and military service to the crowd in front of him.

It may not have been well considered, but it was almost certainly intended, what he said the way he said it.

Anil Petra on November 2, 2006 at 11:45 AM

Oh stop it John! You’re killing me here! Oh ho ho ha ha….

FrankenKerry must be using a portion of the “Heinz Trust Fund”–as allowed under the Trust for “educational purposes”–for comedy classes ‘CAUSE HE IS JUST TEARING UP THE FREAKIN’ ROOM!

numbnut….

Fargus on November 2, 2006 at 12:42 PM

I WILL not apologize to no man. LOL yes tereza…………….LOL That will do it to those no good repub’s. They have to know all I am saying is” Give peaceME a chance ………LOL yeah right Flipper !!!

bones47 on November 2, 2006 at 1:49 PM

messed up on the strike………lol sorry

bones47 on November 2, 2006 at 1:49 PM

TheBigOldDog,

that is exactly where people are getting tripped up.

jummy on November 2, 2006 at 2:13 PM

The photo of the soldiers holding the banner is hilarious but not one msm has published it. Why?

Because they are sure their intellectually superior audience won’t get it.

SouthernGent on November 2, 2006 at 2:30 PM

It doesn’t bloody well matter whether it was a botched joke or an assertive statement. His reaction to criticism because of it is proof enough that he has no real regard for the armed forces of the United States of America. Anyone who did would have either

A) immediately realized the gaff and shoehorned in a pro-military “they’re a fine group of boys dying for an immoral war” or

B) made it a point on first criticism to apologize directly to the troops, even if he were to use it as an oportunity to bash Bush.

John Kerry has an extensively documented history of contempt for the armed forces. That he would say such a thing as either a statement of fact or as a Freudian slip is no surprise.

spmat on November 2, 2006 at 3:42 PM

“My personal opinion is that it was a Freudian slip on Kerry’s part.

He attempted to insult President Bush but his lips moved faster then his brain and he said what he really thought not what he was supposed to say.”

F15Mech on November 1, 2006 at 10:31 PM

Bingo.

Spurius Ligustinus on November 2, 2006 at 4:52 PM

AP

The best evidence we have of what he meant is the context. The context had to do with Bush.

Yes and no.
If context is only
The language that precedes and follows a series of words, such as a particular sentence or clause.
Then YES. That definition is straight out of Answer.com’s Legal Encyclopedia.
There’s more to life than legalism, thank god.

Webster defines context in another way – the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs.

Kerry’s long, long history of denigrating soldiers

is the context – the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs.

Had Kerry’s words been uttered by any other politician there would be no brouhaha.
Had those words been uttered by any other politician then the legalistic definition –
The language that precedes and follows a series of words, such as a particular sentence or clause. would widely have taken primacy. No brouhaha.

But they were uttered by Kerry. People taking who says a thing into account are not nutrooters.
They are contextualizing.

Stephen M on November 2, 2006 at 5:47 PM

I think he is obsessed with Bush. If he would have said “you get in a quagmire in Iraq”, it would have been more obvious that it was about Bush. But I am going with it was intended for Bush but the Freudian slip flew out because that is how he really thinks about the troops(In Vietnam and Now). I am also predicting a SNL Skit.

Drtuddle on November 2, 2006 at 5:53 PM

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