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Does any of the above make any sense?

Professor Blather on October 26, 2006 at 11:11 AM

Every single word, Professor.

Robert Spencer is by far the best Hot Air video presenter.

Remember Afghan citizen Abdul Rahman. He made international news last spring when he converted from Islam to Christianity. He was……

I heard that the Italian that was kidnapped in Afghanistan (Gabriele Torsello) is actually a convert to Islam.

Take a gander at Torsello’s image in this BBC article.

Which seems weird.

Well, because talking about the majority of Muslims – the moderates – wouldn’t help to shape the paradigm of Islam that suits the interests of American foreign policy. In order to engineer the consent of the masses, the media selectively report on issues that either confirm the Washington Concensus or keep the bewildered masses (me and you) focused on the trivial.

GregH, do you think the media is doing the bidding of the government? The NYT is helping Bush in his plans to attack other Muslim nations?

Are you really saying this?

Points well taken, I agree with much of what you are saying and if I may suggest that a good topic for Robert Spencer or Hot Air is recognition of the Muslim population explosion being used as a weapon – and disregard for the development of those children due to their numbers.

The issue of the “moderate” Muslim remains however. How can we say that Hersi Ali, to me the benchmark of the “Moderate” Muslim, is a threat? There are many who would follow in the mold of Hersi Ali if they were not threatened for their beliefs.

I do not believe we can simply seperate all Muslims into the evil, take the stand of “us versus them”. Hersi Ali is worth studying because her reforms would bring Islam from a dangerous dogma based on 13th century domination to a modern form of tolerant religious beliefs devoted the worship of God.

This issue of the truly “moderate” Muslim needs to be addressed in depth to understand the problem we face.

Put it this way: someone calls themselves a Nazi, says that they are a follower of Hitler and his teachings in Mein Kampf.

They also say that you have Hitler all wrong – he had the highest morals and lived according to the will the Aryan god.

Do you trust that person? Do you trust a prayer place that meets on Thursdays to readings of Mein Kampf and sermons thereof?

What do you think of the 1 billion other Nazis who are “peaceful”? Do you want 10 or 20 or 30 million Nazis living and breeding in the USA?

Now back to Islam. Muhammad is exactly as Ali Sina has written, as documented in Islamic texts. Islamic wreaked havoc on the world, killing 60-80 million Hindus along the way, also documented by Muslims – who are proud of it.

Islam has NEVER been peaceful, except as they slid into economic and military irrelevence as the West rose, culiminating in the last 60-80 years (remember the Armenian genocide). What are witnessing now is an reawakening of Islam which wants to go back to the only thing it knows how to do: steal from others and kill or enslave them.

Islam has added NOTHING to the world’s knowledge – forget about the “Golden Age”, which was merely the echoes of the Persian and Byzantine far superior civilizations which Islam DESTROYED.

A ‘moderate’ Muslim is a walking time bomb, who at the very best is trying to breed us into submission. Do we really want 5 or 10 or 20% of our population utter misogynists?

I rest my case.

While tolerance is a good thing, it is only good to a point.

I honestly believe that most Muslims genuinely want peace. It’s their religion that has the problem.

From what I’ve seen, it’s not the religion that has been hijacked by radicals, it is the person that has been hijacked by a radical religion. It causes a normally sane and rational person to commit acts that would be considered insane and irrational.

Here are some conclusions I’ve come to:

Islam inculcates an “us vs. them” mentality. It encourages interaction with other Muslims and not with non-Muslims.

Islam has high demands for what it deems pure. These demands are usually too high for a regular person to meet which fosters guilt.

The dogma of Islam is considered absolute truth. There is no room for challenging current beliefs without appearing unfaithful.

Thought stopping words -special terms- are used to describe complicated situations. (Dhimmitude, Jihad, Sharia, etc.)

The Islamic doctrine takes precedence over the person. If a person’s experience doesn’t match up with what the religion believes, the person is the one with the problem. Many Muslims can be required to go against their conscience or condemn something that they personally don’t have a problem with.

You must also be a Muslim to “be saved”. The Muslim world is divided into two camps. There is no valid reason to leave the Muslim faith. Those who do are considered evil or deficient in some way.

The religion gets such a hold on the person that all the actions of the person are filtered through the religion.

The original person has been covered with so many layers of control that they cannot think independently.

They become convinced of the Truth of their religion and the above layers of control make sure that they become so enmeshed that they become “assimilated into the Borg.”

Now we have the additional problem that, since its founding, Islam has used violence and coercion to spread. Those techniques are part of the religion.

All these factors make it easy for someone within the group to lead them to do literally anything.

I doubt any of this information really helps out much because I was working through this as I typed it out and it really doesn’t help me out either. Coercive groups are dangerous even when they don’t have a propensity towards violence.

People can leave such groups usually by getting ahold of the right information -even when it turns their world upside down.

“Nuke em all” is the thought that has come to my mind a lot -especially after watching videos of people’s deaths being executed and the jubliant masses praising their god. But that is not the answer. That is the option to employ only upon absolute failure after other venues are spent and it is down to kill or be killed. I don’t see us at that point yet. If it comes to that point, I hope we recognise it before it’s too late.

I see the best path being the longest and most difficult path: Saving the Muslim from himself.

I could blather on indefinitely, but I need to stop before I stoop to incoherency.

-Paladin

Lord grant me the courage to change the things I can,
The serenety to accept the things I can’t
And the weaponry to make the difference.

The stalwart Robert Spencer, author of yet another best-selling book the MSM doesn’t want to talk about, reports on continued death threats against Afghanistan apostate Abdul Rahman. Watch and learn. Meanwhile, the Jyllands Posten has prevailed in a D…

Yes, I goofed, Brigette Gabriel is actually a Christian – sorry for the mispost.

I do think that the point is well made with Hersi Ali however.

It makes me wish Robert Spencer would do a piece on the “moderate” muslim however – he would be able to come up with more examples.

I read about them on occasion but have not kept track.

I completly understand your delima and have some of those same questions as well. Here are my conclusions:

Tolerance of others is a value I believe is essential to not only peace but a prosperous and vibrant civilization. Tolerance of others, especially religion, is a foundation of our great nation and an essential part of our culture.

There are limits to Tolerance however – and as with almost all things absolutes are an illusion. We tolerate others to speak as they choose – except when they clearly infringe on another’s safety (ie, shouting fire in a crowded theatre).

The problem with Islam is that it is anything but tolerant of others and those that defect from their way of thinking. This lack of tolerance is firmly and thoroughly integrated into their doctrine and belief system. (Just one proof and example is today’s excellent vent). There are only 3 choices for a human condition with the Muslim:

1) Muslim
2) Slave
3) Dead

This is the issue – how to be tolerant of a group that is not tolerant of others and wishes to impose their will on others (especially me). The answer is that Tolerance of such a group is foolish and unwise – they will use your values of tolerance against you to dominate you, your values, your way of life or will destroy you, your kin, your country, and anything they do not approve in the smallest way.

The one facet of this delima I have struggled with and requested discourse for on Hot Air is about the “moderate” Muslim. The conclusion I have come to is that the “moderate” Muslim is very rare and is persecuted unmercifully, as is the case with Hersi Ali and Bridgette Gabriel.

I have come to the conclusion that almost all Muslims that are not of the violent jihad seeking variety and “desire peace” are in reality “dormant” or in a “not currently active” state. This explains why the original Muslim immigrants can be peaceful and their offspring become the jihad variety.

Yes, describing Islam as “religion of peace” is not only a myth but is a gross misrepresentation of an intolerant doctrine that mandates unmerciful and barbarbic treatment of anyone who does not think as they do.

The solutions are elusive, but I have many ideas here. The most important ones for the near future are:

1) It is essential that the Untied States enforce it laws without regard to religion. If the Muslim engages in violence, abets terrorism, or commits treason the law should be enforced immediately and to it’s fullest extent.

2) We can recognize the current state of affairs and participate in discussion such as that here on Hot Air. Hot Air is an extremely valuable resource that we should all view daily and participate in.

3) In my opinion I believe boycott of any and all Muslim or Islamic organization, business, or individual is in our best interest.

Sorry for the longest post ever – I hope it stimulates conversation on an important topic.

Well, because talking about the majority of Muslims – the moderates – wouldn’t help to shape the paradigm of Islam that suits the interests of American foreign policy. In order to engineer the consent of the masses, the media selectively report on issues that either confirm the Washington Concensus or keep the bewildered masses (me and you) focused on the trivial.

And I am not suggesting some major conspiracy here – it’s just how the system operates in an effort to sustain our society.

GregH on October 26, 2006 at 1:08 PM

These ‘moderate muslims’ you speak of are the ones who don’t actually follow their religion. Just like Robert Spencer pointed out in the video, as a muslim you are supposed to put apostates to death according to Mohammed and his book. Why are the radicals the ones just following the religion as it is written? Why are you a Dhimmi?

Rev 20:4
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Which has to try to kill all who say otherwise.

Or who wise up and attempt to escape its clutches.

Just like the Jonestown death-cult of Jim “Former Rhesus Monkey Salesman” Jones.

Mecca is just Jonestown with a turban.

The “Recitation”, a vat of poisonous Koranic Kool-Aid, called “Holy” by the sufficiently-intimidated.

Why is it that the small percentage of “radicals” is the only ones you hear about on the evening news?…Can someone help me out here???

Well, because talking about the majority of Muslims – the moderates – wouldn’t help to shape the paradigm of Islam that suits the interests of American foreign policy. In order to engineer the consent of the masses, the media selectively report on issues that either confirm the Washington Concensus or keep the bewildered masses (me and you) focused on the trivial.

And I am not suggesting some major conspiracy here – it’s just how the system operates in an effort to sustain our society.