If you’ve wondered what Jim Caviezel is saying in that Michael J. Fox stem-cell rebuttal ad, wonder no longer: The actor who played Jesus in “The Passion of the Christ” is drawing on his knowledge of that film’s Aramaic language……

If you don’t even know why they had to use immunodeficient mice then you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

They use immunodeficient mice so they won’t fight off the foreign material. They are bred to be susceptible to disease. But the question of why they use such mouse models is unimportant in regard to the effects of pluripotency.

Let’s review. You said:

The pluripotency of ESCs is the attribute that leads to the development of teratomas in the host.

I asked for a source to support that claim, and you pointed to something that doesn’t say what you’re claiming it said. Are you Do you know Glenn Greenwald?

The moon is made of cotton candy. but don’t ask me how I know it, do your own research.

You’ve been cranky all day–arguing with nearly everyone on this thread.

Cranky? Nah, you haven’t seen me when I’m cranky. Trust me on that one. I do appreciate lively debate though. Oh, and this conversation has been going on for 3-4 days now…

Meanwhile, I am leaving this blog now and will have my tea while I curl up with a good book. I suggest you do the same. You’ve been cranky all day–arguing with nearly everyone on this thread.

How does that point to pluripotency causing teratoma? Do you know that wouldn’t happen in such a mouse with various multipotent cells?

Do you have a source for that?

From the NIH page:
http://stemcells.nih.gov/StemCells/Templates/StemCellContentPage.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b3C35BAB6-0FE6-4C4E-95F2-2CB61B58D96D%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2finfo%2fglossary%2easp&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest#Stemcells

Teratoma— Scientists verify that they have established a human embryonic stem cell (hESC) line by injecting putative stem cells into mice with a dysfunctional immune system. Since the injected cells cannot be destroyed by the mouse’s immune system, they survive and form a multi-layered benign tumor called a teratoma. Even though tumors are not usually a desirable outcome, in this test, the teratomas serve to establish the ability of a stem cell to give rise to all cell types in the body. This is because the teratomas contain cells derived from each of the three embryonic germ layers.

I believe this is what is known as “attacking the messenger”, a tactic associated with people who are incapable of attacking the message. Asshole.

What is his message, other than “Look how sick I am and vote to help me!”

The messenger is the message in these ads. That’s why Fox is in them. They really son’t have a damned thing to do with the Senate race. They’re pandering celebrity plugs and a flank attack on the Amendment 2 front.

Really, what is Fox’s message?

But that is what they are doing. They’ve used bone marrow to grow several different organs.

That’s plasticity, or multipotency. It is still not pluripotency, and it has limits. It is not the same thing. It is a wondeful thing, and it demonstrates the potential of this area of investigation. But it is simply not an either/or proposition, and it isn’t being pursued as if it were.

It is this very characteristic of ESCs that is most likely responsible for the fact that ESC research is leading nowhere, whereas ASC research has blossomed.

ESC research is moving along a a fairly brisk pace, considering the limited funding. And we are still funding it. Here are the guidlines for applying for Federal funding for embryonic stem cell research grants. ESC’s were first discovered 8 years ago. We’ve been playing with ASC’s since the 50’s. Adult Stem cells are the reason we do bone marrow transplants.

What gets me with this line of argument is the idea that finding out ASC’s can do amazing things should prevent us from looking at ESC’s. I think it’s an argument for. Knowing what we know about ASC’s, and now knowing how much more versitile ESC’s are than that, it seems to demand investigating ESC’s.

The pluripotency of ESCs is the attribute that leads to the development of teratomas in the host.

Do you have a source for that?

**sits back to watch… : )

The left can draw the line at what is, and what is not torture, and then they can invoke their arguments when that line is crossed, but not before.
Keltes

Let me be clear, I agree with your stance, except the presumption that the left can actually be rational. If you give the left the right to draw a line, they will draw it at no-consequences-for-bad-behavior, no jail time for child rapist or murderers, no detention or deportation for illegal aliens, etc. Just like if one gave Hamas the right to define acceptable terms in Israel: Jews can live just west of the “Palestinian” shoreline.

Flame on!!

Those are mere facts! Don’t confuse the public with the facts.

ESC’s are pluripotent. They can become any type of cell in the body.

It is this very characteristic of ESCs that is most likely responsible for the fact that ESC research is leading nowhere, whereas ASC research has blossomed. The pluripotency of ESCs is the attribute that leads to the development of teratomas in the host.

Your defense of Fox’s cheap political ploy merely points out what Ann Coulter said in her Godless book about Liberal figures of “infallibility” like Fox, Cindy Sheehan, the Jersey Girls or Max Cleland, that those are “holy” figures the Lefts shoves forward to do their dirty work and with whom one is supposed to be powerless to criticize.
Rush refused to do it and for this he is said to be “attacking the messenger” and “an *sshole….

Bone marrow SC’s are the most versitile of the ASC’s, and the most primative as far as they go, because they do go out and turn into things that adult’s need them to turn into. But they are not pluripotent. You can’t take a marrow SC and coax it into being whatever you want it to be.

But that is what they are doing. They’ve used bone marrow to grow several different organs.

Oh please. This is the kind of whiney excuses one expects from children. Speaking of children, how would you like your kids to follow Rush’s lead on this? Shame on him, mocking people with serious diseases. You want to disagree with stem cell research or its funding, fine. Can’t you do it in a dignified and respectful manner?

I don’t have any kids, but if I did, I would have no problem as Rush did not mock the man.

He only said, as I already said, that Fox was likely off of his meds, which he said because Fox admitted to doing so when he wanted to show people the effects of his disease.

And after saying that, Rush also said that he had no problem with Fox doing this if indeed this is what Fox had done.

If I had kids, I would be more ashamed if they called a man an a-hole without even listening to the man to see if he is indeed an a-hole.

Listen to Rush or don’t. I really don’t care. But don’t claim to know what you are talking about when you do not, specifically when you tout “details” as your weapon of choice.

I believe this is what is known as “attacking the messenger”, a tactic associated with people who are incapable of attacking the message. Asshole.

honora on October 25, 2006 at 3:01 PM

But seriously, how do you really feel about this?

Rush was just repeating what M. Fox said in his book. He admitted that this is what he did in order to gain more sympathy for victims of the disease.

Rose on October 25, 2006 at 1:18 PM

Exactly, he was only using Fox’s own words and even said he didn’t believe it was a problem if Fox had done that.

“Oh details”.

Esthier on October

Oh please. This is the kind of whiney excuses one expects from children. Speaking of children, how would you like your kids to follow Rush’s lead on this? Shame on him, mocking people with serious diseases. You want to disagree with stem cell research or its funding, fine. Can’t you do it in a dignified and respectful manner?

I believe this is what is known as “attacking the messenger”, a tactic associated with people who are incapable of attacking the message. Asshole.

Cells taken from the patient’s own bone marrow or blood have been able to regrow livers.

Bone marrow SC’s are the most versitile of the ASC’s, and the most primative as far as they go, because they do go out and turn into things that adult’s need them to turn into. But they are not pluripotent. You can’t take a marrow SC and coax it into being whatever you want it to be.

The only overstatement (as I’ve seen) is that ESC will ever be worthwhile. There’s no proof of that.

Proof means different things to different people, I suppose. there is an enormous amount of evidence that they will, much of it based on what we’ve learned in decades of ASC research. Why do you think Bush authorized the funding he did if there just no point in it?

Find me a scientist that says otherwise. For all of the things ASC’s are capable of ESC’s can do more. We know enough about their nature to know that, and science doesn’t start at zero every time a new thing comes along. We know this to be true because we’ve seen the different types and seen how they behave.

We didn’t need to have home electronics systems for people to realize that electricity was capable of doing much more than fire was. We knew there was a greater potential long before we harnessed it efficiently.

These are not overstatements or wishes. These are articles about things ASC have actually done. These ASC are being made to effect any number of cells and organs.

The only overstatement (as I’ve seen) is that ESC will ever be worthwhile. There’s no proof of that.

There is however proof that ASC can be used to cure diseases right now.

Christopher Reeve never walked before dying. But two people who were paralyzed did. With the help of ASC not ESC.