Pastors encouraging Christian couples to get their freak on
posted at 9:02 pm on October 17, 2006 by Allahpundit
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It was either a post about this or a post about Bush signing the detainee bill this morning. But why bother with that? It’s dead on arrival. In a year or two it’ll land on the desk of America’s Solon and he’ll decide that the whole thing makes him feel icky, and that’ll be that.
So let’s take it tabloid with Christian love:
The occasion is a seminar called “Love, Sex and Marriage,” being given by Joe Beam, a Southern preacher out of the old school, a self-described “book-chapter-and-verse guy,” who runs an outfit based in Franklin, Tenn., called Family Dynamics. So I’m anticipating condemnation of American culture — especially America’s sexual culture — that has made conservative Christians feel besieged.
Beam, who is studying for a sexology Ph.D. from the University of Sydney in Australia, is all about shining the light. He and a few others like him have concluded that conservative Christians can cope with America’s hypersexualized culture by being given permission to pluck much of its fruit…
The humor and the brazen talk, coming from a man who is not only one of them, but a leader who rubs elbows with James Dobson and Jerry Falwell, gives them permission to relax and hear his message.
It’s a simple one: Sex is good. Good sex makes people happy. It deepens relationships. So it helps marriages last and that pleases God and makes society better.
There’s plenty more, including copius video clips, at the link. And it’s not just Beam. ABC pretends to spot a trend stretching from church chats in Oregon for “Sexy Christians” to sex-themed websites operated by churches in New Jersey. I say “pretends to spot a trend” because there’s no hard data to suggest just how prevalent this supposed trend is. I suspect it isn’t a trend at all.
But it sure makes for titillating copy, doesn’t it?
The definitive parody in this area was published in the Onion a few years ago, but naturally it warrants a content warning. Proceed at your own risk.
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*forwards URL for this post to his wife*
Bellicose Muse on October 17, 2006 at 9:21 PM
Boy, what a stupid post and link.
What, you need ratings this badly?
Nice lowering of the bar, HotAir.
Dr. Gecko on October 17, 2006 at 9:32 PM
As a practicing Jesus freak, the Onion piece isn’t all that far off.
Now, go ye forth and eat thee some pineapple and mango.
Kid from Brooklyn on October 17, 2006 at 9:36 PM
God wants you to have great sex.
…
Thank you, baby Jesus.
Savage on October 17, 2006 at 9:37 PM
I knew KfB wouldn’t let me down.
Allahpundit on October 17, 2006 at 9:38 PM
Them Christians and their sex… How come they don’t adopt little African kids like Madonna does instead of shagging away making 6 or 8 more mouths to feed?
[insert "Meaning of Life" reference here.]
HerrMorgenholz on October 17, 2006 at 9:41 PM
Amen, Allah. Praise the Lord and pass the Astroglide.
Kid from Brooklyn on October 17, 2006 at 9:46 PM
And the gag ball.
Kid from Brooklyn on October 17, 2006 at 9:47 PM
Good stuff.
The Ugly American on October 17, 2006 at 9:49 PM
A sense of humor is a good thing.
tdau1997 on October 17, 2006 at 10:03 PM
Now don’t be a buzzkill Dr. Gecko
Maybe you should be ‘lowering the bar’ more often.
infidel4life on October 17, 2006 at 10:05 PM
Umm. Is this something really new? Hasn’t anyone read Song of Soloman before? How about the command be fruitful and multiply? Ya can’t really do that without sex now can ya?
I find it shocking that people find it shocking that Christians find sex important. Umm… why? I grew up in a Christian household and once I was old enough to understand this stuff, I was always taught that sex is a good thing in the context of marriage.
thule on October 17, 2006 at 10:12 PM
Procreative sex, sure. Sex for pleasure, though?
Allahpundit on October 17, 2006 at 10:14 PM
The Church has been uncomfortable with that notion for way too many centuries. It’s about freaking time someone spoke out for it.
infidel4life on October 17, 2006 at 10:19 PM
Note
ruiling applies to Jews as well
havanagliah!
Defector01 on October 17, 2006 at 10:32 PM
Read thee the Song of Solomon.
Kid from Brooklyn on October 17, 2006 at 10:32 PM
“Sex wasn’t invented in a dark alley behind a porn shop.”
Damn, thought I had really done something back then…oh well.
shooter on October 17, 2006 at 10:35 PM
inspired and wanting more.
No great accomplishment there boys, we’ve all been sayin’ that for centuries.
Where does KP stand on this issue? Bethany? Dont s’pose this is the next hotair “VIEW” topic is it?
shooter on October 17, 2006 at 10:45 PM
Actually, Paul even talks in one book (can’t remember at the moment) about how it’s wrong for one spouse to refuse the other. And that a married couple should only decide together not to have sex, but even if they decide to abstain, it should only be for a short while.
Found it…
Esthier on October 17, 2006 at 11:09 PM
I find it shocking that people find it shocking that Christians find sex important.
Procreative sex, sure. Sex for pleasure, though?
Allahpundit on October 17, 2006 at 10:14 PM
-Absolutely! I grew up in a Baptist church/homeschooling environment with lots of abstinence based sex ed and other exposure to the topic from a Christian perspective (sermons, books, magazine articles, Bible college education, etc). No one ever downplayed the pleasure part of sex. The message I have always heard in all forums related to Christian teaching is that sex is not just sanctioned by God, it was designed by God with two basic purposes: to have kids of course, but definitely for married couples to bond and enjoy being together. The Bible actually says more to the latter purpose than the former. It says “Be fruitful and multiply,” but like someone else mentioned, there’s the very explicit Song of Solomon, an entire book of the Bible celebrating married love (and it is even more explicit when you understand the Hebrew metaphors). I can give lots more examples if you really want to know.
Basically, Christians believe that sex within marriage is a masterpiece; beautiful and holy and passionate. When someone takes that powerful union and uses it outside of marriage, it defaces the masterpiece, like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa. It’s not sex that we have a problem with, it’s the defacing of it.
Imagine, if you will, a world where everyone followed, voluntarily, the idea that “sex is for married people” and no one had sex outside of marriage. There goes your rape, your sexual abuse, your STDs, your unwed mothers and fathers, your prostitution and sexual slavery, the majority of your abortions and fatherlessness, the adultery and the broken families and lives that result, at least half of your political scandals, etc.
Everything that God asks of us, He does so that He can give something good to us, and keep some harm from us. He doesn’t force us to make this choice, but the blessings and protection that come from following what He says are enormous.
tikvah on October 17, 2006 at 11:17 PM
Jews have always thought that sex within the context of marriage should be for pleasure as well as for procreation.
As far as the “God wants you to have good sex” stuff, Rabbi Shmuely Boteach wrote “Kosher Sex!” some years back to cover all of that stuff.
Find a partner and don’t study alone.
chsw
chsw on October 17, 2006 at 11:18 PM
Here’s how the post ended originally:
Wonder away!
Allahpundit on October 17, 2006 at 11:36 PM
Hey allah… “He is risen” ??? You need to keep the cynicism away from resurection jokes. You can do better.
It’s no secret that married Christians have sex more often then their unbelieving counterparts. If you have a right relationship with God you’re more likely to have a good relationship with your spouse. Sex is for marriage though. God gave us 10 commandments not 10 suggestions.
Mojave Mark on October 17, 2006 at 11:41 PM
But woe unto him and her if they’re not married.
Traditional Christianity divides adults into two classes: those who are married are allowed to have sex, but those who are single are not. We are second-class citizens, we are not allowed to have sex, it is a sin. Abstinence is the only option.
I’ve been on both sides of this divide. When you’re married it’s all good, but the Church is woefully inadequate in accepting a liveable heterosexual lifestyle for single believers.
infidel4life on October 17, 2006 at 11:50 PM
>When you’re married it’s all good, but the Church is woefully inadequate in accepting a liveable heterosexual lifestyle for single believers.
tikvah on October 17, 2006 at 11:56 PM
Hmm, I wrote more to the above comment/quote, but it didn’t post for some reason. One more time:
“When you’re married it’s all good, but the Church is woefully inadequate in accepting a liveable heterosexual lifestyle for single believers.”
Don’t shoot the messenger; take it up with the Inventor. You won’t answer to “the church,” you will answer to God. He knows you, He knows sex, and He wants what’s best for you. There are tons of reasons, other than biblical, to reserve sex for marriage.
tikvah on October 18, 2006 at 12:02 AM
With all due respect, tikvah, your version of a moral utopia where sex only exists within marriage is not Biblical, and it is just as much of a fantasy as the liberals’ vision of peace and love and Kumbaya.
And I am quite happy to be judged by my Creator, who has walked in my shoes, rather than a religious person who hasn’t.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 12:15 AM
Golldang, AP. I just got the hot funky Christian freak on with my wife, watched a bit of the Mets-Cards, some NCIS and this is what I come back to? Back to the freak! Geez.
Editor on October 18, 2006 at 12:16 AM
BTW tikvah, you are married, no?
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 12:21 AM
Infidel: I’m not saying that’s going to happen. I’m saying, what would be the outcomes if that were the case? And no, I’m not married.
tikvah on October 18, 2006 at 12:26 AM
Well, Mary K’s a protestant so…she’s the one with the “fun” syllabus. Who’s the Catholic?
And way to turn theological education into a…different kind of email tradition…and brag, all at the same time. Rock on, Christianity.
Alex K on October 18, 2006 at 12:35 AM
The outcome would be a utopia of moral perfection, albeit quite unattainable (except by those of perfect moral character, who except for Christ do not even exist), similar to Karl Marx’s fantasy of a perfect world.
But in the real world, for better or for worse, we must accept and confront reality as it is. God doesn’t call us to deny reality, He calls us to make the best of it.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 12:52 AM
“And I am quite happy to be judged by my Creator, who has walked in my shoes, rather than a religious person who hasn’t.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 12:15 AM”
That got me thinking. I really appreciate your comment; I didn’t realize how I was coming across, and I want you to know what was in my heart. I didn’t say what I did as a “religious person” or as anything more than a sinful person, saved by the grace of God, who knew what was right, decided not to care, and found my Savior on the other side, overwhelming me with grace and forgiveness.
You’re absolutely right that God is patient with us and knows where we are coming from. The Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every way that we are tempted and it also says that God will not let us be faced with any temptation that we can’t handle; He is always faithful to provide a way out. But just because God sympathizes with and helps me doesn’t mean that He just winks and looks the other way as I engage in behavior that will destroy me. When He asks me to do something, there’s always an element of blessing and protection from consequences that’s involved. I’m free to choose my way, but at what cost?
Anyway, thanks for making me think. And in case it still needs to be said, I in no way think I’m better than anyone who might be reading this. In fact, I know I’m worse.
tikvah on October 18, 2006 at 1:06 AM
Good.
Now if other Christians would just imitate the Catholics and LDS and celebrate and encourage abundant progeny. Then at least we Christians won’t have to be pulling out our hair when we look at the world’s religion’s demographic trends.
Muslihoon on October 18, 2006 at 1:08 AM
OK, I’m open to a Biblical argument that consensual sex between an unmarried adult couple is destructive. Personally I believe that if you go back to the original languages, there isn’t any.
And I didn’t mean to imply that you are necessarily a ‘religious’ person, only that I’m glad I will not be judged by one.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 1:18 AM
Well, I have gone back to them. There is certainly much to be gained by doing so, but there’s not SO much lost in the translation that you would go from “sex outside of marriage is fine” in Greek or Hebrew to “abstinence outside of marriage” in English or whatever language you’re translating into.
By the way, I noticed you said in your original post that only heterosexual sex outside of marriage should be accepted by the church. Why not homosexuals?
tikvah on October 18, 2006 at 1:35 AM
Homosexual behavior is condemned in no uncertain terms in every passage that mentions it.
And let me be absolutely clear. I’m not referring to adultery, prostitution, incest, pedophilia, rape, or coercion. An unmarried adult male and an unmarried adult female having a consensual relationship. Period.
Let’s have the argument from the Hebrew and the Greek.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 1:55 AM
The bit you quoted about sex being good for marriage is the relevant bit. Yah. Church wants strong marriages. Marriage good. Sex good for marriage. Ergo. Catholic church, problem with sex outside procreation. In practice lots of Catholics either totally ignoring that or rampantly embracing it. Protestants, not so much problem with the concept.
Mary K’s with the C.S. Lewis syllabus, hands down. I wish I’d found somebody to bet with me. Sorry, Alex K, but the Catholics aren’t real big on the Lewis angle. :)
Anwyn on October 18, 2006 at 2:01 AM
Freak it on.
Next month 25 year anniversary
LurP on October 18, 2006 at 2:08 AM
Dang. That’s a lot of freak.
Allahpundit on October 18, 2006 at 2:10 AM
“Let’s have the argument from the Hebrew and the Greek.
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 1:55 AM”
Heh, I’m going to sleep now. Can we take this up again tomorrow? Via email, perhaps?
tikvah on October 18, 2006 at 2:24 AM
NP tikvah, speed647 -at- sbcglobal.net
:-)
infidel4life on October 18, 2006 at 2:35 AM
One almost hopes that tikvah and infidel4life are a single male/female duo who connect :) HOT AiR the matchmaker…if not, they’ll just be friends.
OK, AP, when are you going to divulge the C.S. Lewis versus boudoir riddle? You’ve had at least two commenters bet…
And on your “for procreation or pleasure?” – none for you, ’cause you’re single, and you need to maintain your virginity.
Entelechy on October 18, 2006 at 3:30 AM
“Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue…” Solomon’s Song 4:11
Just how is it she knows what the flavor is under his tongue? And you thought the French started it?
“And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he feared to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon. And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife: and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her.” Genesis 26:6-10
The term sporting is not as ambiguous as it might at first seem, considering that it is the sporting itself that leaves Abimelech convinced that they are married.
“Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.” Hebrews 13:4
To cut off attempts to twist, the language usage in Greek is crystal clear that the marriage bed is what is undefiled, the phrase does not stand apart from the marriage comment.
Those are among the most notable, but by no means the comprehensive list of verses that approve of physical pleasure in marriage.
The kicker is for anyone to offer up ONE VERSE from the Bible that restricts sex to procreation only.
While you are at it, find one verse that allows for sex outside of a marriage. It doesn’t exist. All forms of intimate physical contact between non-married individuals is wrong and abhorrent to God.
AP, C.S. Lewis is an excellent source for Christian apologetics, because his arguments are always airtight and constructed with flawless logic. Plus, he illustrates his concepts with real human behaviors (albeit 1940’s and 1950’s British behaviors). I personally love Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters, and The Great Divorce. Miracles, The Four Loves, and The Abolition of Man are also outstanding for a deeper understanding of God and mans relationship to Him.
Freelancer on October 18, 2006 at 6:57 AM
That’s over the line AP IMO. Using a quote of scripture that refers to Jesus and twisting it into a sexual context isn’t cool.
Benaiah on October 18, 2006 at 8:11 AM
As a former single 20-year-old who slept with her long-time boyfriend/future husband before marrying him who wanted to argue scripture with her mother, I’ll say you’re right and wrong.
It’s correct to say the Bible isn’t quite clear to say sex outside of marriage is wrong. Joseph and Mary were not married but technically would not have been morally wrong if they’d slept together.
Clearly they didn’t, otherwise Joseph wouldn’t have freaked out when he realized she was pregnant, but the Bible didn’t originally consider fornication to include any and all sex outside of marriage.
However, when you look to Genesis, the Bible speaks very clearly of “becoming one flesh”.
Being “one flesh” is associated with the act of sex where two people literally become as one, and the Bible is clear that it does not want that bond to ever be broken. And becoming “one flesh” is not a one-time thing. It lasts beyond the physical.
So basically, the Biblical ideal is to only have sex with one person your entire life, not necessarily marriage. Though as someone who’s been on both sides, marriage is the easiest way to contain this one-flesh bond, at least in my opinion.
Esthier on October 18, 2006 at 9:26 AM
P.S. to Muslims: There’s no need to become “outraged” on us Christian’s behalf. Thanks for thinking of us, though.
Editor on October 18, 2006 at 9:32 AM
C.S. Lewis is great. I’d also recommend Francis Schaeffer if you’re interested in philosophy.
On the sex thing, I think you got some bad intel. Admittedly I’m protestant not Catholic, but all the people I know are pro-sex (within marriage). In fact, my pastor gave a sermon earlier this year about the importance of sex to a healthy marriage.
You might also be interested in this book by one of my favorite pastors. It’s available in March.
John on October 18, 2006 at 12:35 PM
That. Was. Hysterical.
thirteen28 on October 18, 2006 at 12:54 PM
You can tell a fake teacher by his “fruit”. Here this asshole is encouraging his flock to give in to the lust they feel inside. Wonder what the actual bible says about “titillating” others with LASCIVIOUS discussions about your sex life himmmmmm.
See a fake, an actual minister of Satan, is not content with merely misleading you as to what’s in the Bible, the demon that guides his life demands that he get you to actually VIOLATE the EXPRESS commands OF THE SCRIPTURES! In doing so he does his fathers work as Jesus said.
There is also this, which seems to warn quite explicitly AGAINST tailoring the message of God to the corruption of this present world.
Soothsayer on October 18, 2006 at 11:08 PM
From Esthier:
And more:
I’m not sure where to begin. The Bible is exceeding clear that sex outside of marriage is wrong. infidel4life said earlier:
An unmarried adult male and an unmarried adult female having a consentual (not consensual, though the misspelling is somewhat apropos) relationship falls under the definition of fornication, which is mentioned all over the Bible as a sin. It doesn’t matter whether consent is given. Furthermore, fornication is often, but not always, used to include adultery, which is defined as a man (single or married) having sex with a married woman.
Joseph and Mary didn’t have sex during their betrothal period because they weren’t married. If they had, it would have been fornication, and therefore a sin.
Homosexuality, rape, and incest also fall under fornication, and are therefore sin. All forms of fornication defile the very image of God, since we are created in His image. Marriage is the only place where sex is permitted, because the marriage relationship is the earthly example of the relationship between the 3 aspects of God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Participate in fornication, and you destroy that image.
Finally, the “one flesh” idea has been taken to an absurd level. You know how the typical marriage vows say “’til death do us part”? That’s because the marriage vow is ended upon the death of one of the spouses. It does not last beyond this phisical existence, and there is no marriage in heaven except that we humans become the bride of Christ. Once one of the spouses has died, it is perfectly fine for the surviving partner to remarry. The “one flesh” bond is not to be broken in life except by death, or by divorce in the case of fornication by one of the spouses.
The biblical idea is very clear: that you should only have sex with the person to whom you are married. Marriage is a requirement, backed up by Scripture in both Old and New Testaments. Any sex outside of marriage is fornication, and a sin.
red_five on October 19, 2006 at 11:30 AM
AMEN red_five, AMEN. ALL of your comments were brilliant and 100% correct. If only they would listen. Unfortunately some here will bristle when Biblical truth is spoken.
Soothsayer on October 29, 2006 at 4:53 PM
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