The military fight will continue, no matter what happens in Iraq. This is not going to end with handshakes and multi-lateral peace negotiations.

If the West is not yet prepared to subdue the enemy, the enemy will continue to grow bolder and bolder. A massive invasion of the Middle East — several times larger than the invasion of Iraq — that would encompass Iran and western Pakistan is almost inevitable.

GWB has been waging a limited war with the hopes of buying time for this broadening war effort. However, there is only so much that any US President can do to prepare the country for an unprecedented clash of this kind. Maybe that was the compassionate approach; yet it has been roundly attacked politically as a disproportionate reaction to the enemy’s attacks.

I think we do need another Truman. A man prepared to do whatever it takes to end the war with victory. And a generation of citizens ready to make that the new reality.

The cost is horrific to contemplate either way. But handshakes will NOT end this.

This may have been written 500 years ago, but it applies perfectly to the situation in Iraq today:

Thirteen28, you are a Prince. You’re right: it is perfect, almost prophetic.

Going to dig through my old books, now…

bamapachyderm on October 14, 2006 at 2:13 AM

Thanks bama … and thanks for noting it over at your blog as well ;)

I have two Scotties. (Great minds think alike. From Fala, onward…)

When you have the advantage of strength of arms, and you are fighting for the liberation of humanity (and not their “holy” imprisonment), and you do not act to squash terroristic homicidal maniacs seeking WMD’s, you reveal a catastrophic diffidence at the heart of the confused Western spirit. And self-divided mind/em>.

The Bush Administration’s idealistic folly of “speading democracy” in a place where it is more like neolithic tribes warring over totems, or mafia clans extending the “protection racket” in the neigborhood of a rival “family”, is a damning piece of evidence of the Total Failure of U.S. Intelligence on this issue of The Root of Islamic Imperialism: The Koran.

Is History taught anymore?

Santayana, who?

Maybe people need to gather at the White House gate and throw Korans over the fence (ala Kerry’s VietNam era “medal” toss), while chanting: “Read It And Weep!” over and over and over?

The more the delusional extremelib class of self-loathing, suicidally-soft suckers-of-Sharia and swallowers-of-the-”Religion of Peace” myth in the West dare to crack open the “Recitation” (al-Qur’an) and have the scales fall from their dream-blinded eyes, the sooner this War will be begun in earnest.

And, with our overwhelming military and technological and intellectual advantage, we would win it within a decade.

(If we were deadly serious, as people in battle once were, the War Against Islamic Imperialism could be over in a month… but that level of self-preservational intensity won’t happen until a million corpses lie rotting in the streets of a major U.S. city.)

Meanwhile, give Korans for X-mas.

Knowledge is power.

Spread the dread.

Islamically-schooled peoples will only vote for more Islam. They know nothing else. They are taught nothing else. Their societies honor nothing else. “Democracy”, in their “submissive” world-view, only brings the means for implementing a globally-aspiring, Eternal, Theocratic Police State.

You hit the nail on the head. I cannot figure out why people have not figured it out, we are in a religious war with Islam,period.

We will have to defeat them or surrender and submit.

We need to decimate the enemy with overwhelming force like using nukes. I dare say that if the little Hitler in Iran woke up to a mushroom cloud with a statement from our President that we will not tolerate it any longer, we may just win this war.

Everything else is just appeasement.

This may have been written 500 years ago, but it applies perfectly to the situation in Iraq today:

Thirteen28, you are a Prince. You’re right: it is perfect, almost prophetic.

Going to dig through my old books, now…

At least any kind of “representative state” that means anything like what it has come to signify in the Western world: a Constitutionally-based Bill of Rights and secular rule of man-made laws.

In America’s case, drawing on “inalienable” rights, “endowed” (before any governmental fiats are ever written down) by an unnamed, non-denominational “Creator”. A “Nature’s God” figure invoked to add profound religious “weight” and “cultural” resonance to such an earth-shaking, fundmental statement as: “All men are created equal” and are made “by their Creator” with their essential, inalienable worth. A value that is not something given by any government.

Governments, on the contrary, are the ones to be restrained from exceeding their usefulness (protecting the citizens, etc.), and infringing illegitimately upon the “natural rights” of men and women.

Islamically-schooled peoples will only vote for more Islam. They know nothing else. They are taught nothing else. Their societies honor nothing else. “Democracy”, in their “submissive” world-view, only brings the means for implementing a globally-aspiring, Eternal, Theocratic Police State.

Better known as Hell On Earth to those who have tasted liberty.

And who have read the nauseating history of ‘religious’ wars, from Deuteronomy to the Aztecs, the millenia of terroristic Muslim invasions (-spreading with the Sword the ‘faith’ of Mohammad through North Africa, and into Spain, across the Middle East, up into the Balkans, over into India, down to Afghanistan, and infiltrating and dominating much of Malaysia/East Asia) to the witch-bruning, heretic-hunting European Inquisition.

Put a “holy” man in power, and you soon find a “divine” despot.

Sharia Law must be humanely reformed and the Koran defanged of its terroristic tenets.

Only then can “democracy” not be just a new method of disguised jihad.

April 19, 1775 – Date of the “Shot heard ’round the world”, considered the commencement of hostilities in the War for American Independence.

July 4, 1776 – Declaration of Independence signed. (1 year, 2 months, 15 days)

Oct 7, 1777 – At Saratoga, the first significant battle victory for the revolutionary army. (2 years, 5 months, 18 days)

Jan 14, 1784 – The Congress ratifies the Treaty of Paris, which was signed on September 3 of the previous year, war officially ends. (8 years, 8 months, 25 days)

Jul 2, 1788 – Upon receipt of Virginia’s acceptance of the Constitution, and being the 9th state to do so, Congress declares the Constitution ratified and in effect. (13 years, 2 months, 13 days)

Arguable two of the most moral nations to ever exist fought for almost 9 years, and more than 13 years were required before the standards for a fully functioning government were set in motion. But in a world of instant coffee, microwaves, satellite/cable/wireless communication and entertainment, it is labeled a failure if we can’t stand up a country out of the dark ages in less than 3 years.

The Iraqi people lived in a state of fear most of us could not claim to understand. During Saddam’s nearly four decades of rule, an average MONTH, not year, saw over 5,000 civilians put to death by the government outside of legal proceedings.

Let me stop there for just a moment. 60,000+ dead each year on average, at the hands of the ruling regime, not in civil war or through criminal prosecution. I call shame on anyone who continues to think that the U.S. presence in Iraq has cost more lives than it has saved.

Back to the larger picture. A society that was under the thumb of it’s leader to such an extent that in his last presidential election Saddam gained 100.0% of the vote, isn’t going to have an easy time pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and believing in the sort of liberty that we presume upon each day. Yes, they want it. But they doubt, due to a lifetime of reality being something so much harsher.

John Kerry commented during the 2004 campaign that democracy is never created by bloodshed. Aside from the fact that “democracy” shouldn’t be the goal, but a representative and freely elected government, Kerry is as wrong as ever. I defy him and anyone else to point to a “democracy” that WASN’T brought about through war.

It is a very good thing people like today’s quitters didn’t have a significant voice during Revolutionary times. We fought for nearly two and a half years before even winning a sizable battle! How would the cut-and-run crowd have responded to that? QUAGMIRE!!!

Iran and Iraq beat each other up for more than 8 years, and it got them nothing but lots of dead people. The residents of the region simply don’t know how to imagine life any other way. As a society, we need to be patient with them. As a nation with an self-interest, and the capacity to act on that self-interest, we need to be steadfast.

Never quit.

Frankj, it might have been the best goal all along to insert someone in power along the lines of the old Shah. But they would (rightly) be viewed as an American puppet, and that wouldn’t do in the most heated region of Earth.

Friendly dictators just aren’t acceptable these days, though.

There has already been a successful effort at democracy in Iraq, but the liberals demand that we turn a blind eye to that fact. Indeed, according to the liberal MSM, America has a broken economy, the housing bubble burst a year ago, and we are incapable of winning any war. Give me a break! If you wish to believe their crud then go buy your burka, hang the local sluts, and kill your neighborhood homosexuals as the terrorists demand.

Allah, you have a hard time believing that liberals are the cause of the difficulties we face in the wars, but you would be the first person I would rely on to give examples of democrats making statements against America’s efforts, thus harming our efforts, and working to protect the enemy combatants [I hate that phrase]. In a nutshell, either you [not meaning just you, Allah] support our war efforts, or you do not. The quickest way to lose these wars is to admit defeat, and I refuse to be that sort of quitter. Apparently, the majority of our armed forces feel the same way I do, and thus I will continue to support them.

Those that can, do. Those that cannot, quit. Do not fall for the liberal line, and thus join the quitters.

chsw

Now now, let’s not let facts get in the way of the truth here.

Texas Gal, ‘you don’t care how long it takes?’………
Are you insane? How about 40 years, is that ok with you.

Split up the country in three parts. Clean out Falujah. Kill anyone one who opposes in Falujah…women and children with their men.
Then clean up N Korea………..NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LZVandy on October 13, 2006 at 1:38 PM

No LZV, I’m not insane.

This ain’t a shake ‘n bake.

… there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them. Thus it happens that whenever those who are hostile have the opportunity to attack they do it like partisans, whilst the others defend lukewarmly, in such wise that the prince is endangered along with them.

Democracy is a hard concept for a society still anchored tribally to grasp. Nevertheless, Democracy in the middle east (or a form of it that tribals can work with) is going to be absolutely essential if Islamofascism is to be defeated.

And Islamofascism is a clear and present danger to the United States and the west.

If we don’t defeat it now, while we still can, the world faces dark days, if not outright anihalation. Bush is right that the best chance to do so is if a form of democracy takes hold in the middle east in a major way. Modern secular states (not dictatorships) in the middle east are the only way to avoid a catastrophic (for the world) end result.

I don’t know what to make of the NY Sun’s report of the Baker commission’s draft report.

“Representative” government as opposed to “democracy” appear to be arguments of the “how many angles can dance on the head of a pin” type in most people’s minds. After all, the United States is a “representative” form of government — not a democracy. That’s what REPUBLICS are, after all.

However, if Baker really does think that Sunni dictatorships in Sunni majority countries are “representative,” he is plainly wrong.

America, by leading the overthrow of TWO dictatorships in the middle east, has begun the process of ending the threat of Islamofascism. If the Sun’s description of Baker’s plan is correct, that it would be exactly the wrong course to take and it will lead to Islamofascism being triumphant in the middle east and a major loss of life on the planet.

The problem of violence in Iraq is caused by sectarian militias (mostly Shiite), undefeated Ba’athists, and Al Qaeda, in that order. The tribal elements in Iraq are already part of the government of Iraq now. The inclusion of the tribals is actually going to be the key to success in the middle east for us.

The sectarian militias (specifically, the Shiites) and the Ba’athists (the Sunni equivalent, including the former Saddamist thugs) are going to have to be put down by force, if they won’t voluntarily put down their arms. Hence, any adjustment in troop levels should be an increase, not a “cut and run” decrease as the Democrats (and possibly Baker) propose.

And we will probably have to confront Syria militarily before too long. We ARE going to be confronting Iran militarily anyway, given the direction they are going. They are complicit in continuing the strife in Iraq an they need to cease, even if we have to overthrow them too.

For the record, it is possible for “sectarians” to put down their arms and talk instead of shoot. It happened in Northern Ireland — though it took 30 years of strife. Hopefully it won’t take as long as that in Iraq. But they have to decide it is in their best interests to do so. Cutting off Syria’s and Iran’s ability to interfere will go a long way towards making the point, IMHO.

One more thing: The situation in Iraq has been deliberately misreported by the media, who are working for an American defeat. They won’t tell you that the majority of the Iraqi people WANT us there to stablize their country. But if you read the Iraq Index at the Brookings Institution, it’s clear.

How about 40 years, is that ok with you.

Fine with me. Unless one is SO naive as to think you can just up and “country” a place in between commercial breaks.

Split up the country in three parts. Clean out Falujah. Kill anyone one who opposes in Falujah…women and children with their men.
Then clean up N Korea………..NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone truly expect anything different from a panel chaired by James Baker? He & his ilk (Brent Scowcroft,etc) have always taken a “realpolitik” stance regarding the Middle East. You know, the soft bigotry of low expectations…the kind of thinking that allowed Saddam Hussein a free hand in Iraq, and keeps Mubarak in power in Egypt. Nothing new here..

Abigail Adams on October 13, 2006 at 8:58 AM

Amen! Founding Mother!

And I for one am not going back there!!

I think it should be noted that the Bush Administration did not request nor fund this endeavor because I think that many (read Democrats) are going to use it to insinuate that Bush refused to take the advice therein he solicited from a fellow Republican, and family friend because it didn’t suit his agenda.

The Iraqi Parliment has already agreed to set up a process to discuss federalization. A major number of the tribes in Al Anbar have entered into an agreement with the government to fight the insurgency and the terrorists coming in across the border.

I have no problem with negotiation with Iraqi insurgents in order to bring about a political resolution. But I’d be damn if I’d negotiate one twit with Iran or Syria.

Failure in Iraq is not an option, I don’t give a damn how long it takes. I do trust Gens. Casey and Abizaid to make that call.

And Bush has defined what victory is. He defines it every time he speaks on Iraq! You must not be listening!!

Maybe I am wrong, or off base, but I believe that our efforts to minimize civilian deaths and to “win hearts and minds” has actually cost more deaths and lost more hearts and minds than we have won. We needed to go after the insurgents full force, and quash that right away. If we had, we would not be talking quagmire and losing. We were more worried about PR than in actually winning this thing.

LissaKay on October 12, 2006 at 11:26 PM

No, you are not wrong, you hit the nail on the head. And you even sum up why in your last sentence when you note that other things have been given a higher priority than victory, which in war, always leads to more deaths no matter how noble the intentions.

so let’s move on to the people with a plan for success in the Iraq democracy effort.

Sounds great!! Now, where do we find these people?