Jeff Jacoby to Amish girls’ killer: I dub thee unforgiven
posted at 3:51 pm on October 9, 2006 by Allahpundit
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Still getting e-mails about this post from last week. There are three schools of thought, roughly: the Dreher camp, which aspires to emulate the Amish’s beatific capacity for forgiveness; the Allahpundit camp, which aspires to pee on the killer’s grave; and the Jacoby camp, which strikes a balance. Quote:
[H]atred is not always wrong, and forgiveness is not always deserved. I admire the Amish villagers’ resolve to live up to their Christian ideals even amid heartbreak, but how many of us would really want to live in a society in which no one gets angry when children are slaughtered? In which even the most horrific acts of cruelty were always and instantly forgiven? There is a time to love *and* a time to hate, Ecclesiastes teaches. If anything deserves to be hated, surely it is the pitiless murder of innocents.
To voluntarily forgive those who have hurt you is beautiful and praiseworthy. That is what Jesus did on the cross, what Christians do when they say the Lord’s Prayer, what observant Jews do when they recite the bedtime Kriat Sh’ma. But to forgive those who have hurt — who have murdered — someone else? I cannot see how the world is made a better place by assuring someone who would do terrible things to others that he will be readily forgiven afterward, even if he shows no remorse.
The key word being “readily.” How readily is too readily? My Christian friends tell me it’s perfectly okay to get righteously angry; witness Jesus’s behavior in the temple vis-a-vis the moneychangers, etc. It’s good sense, too: an evildoer worried about an angry reaction might be deterred, even if he knows he’d be forgiven later.
Of course, Jesus said “turn the other cheek,” not “hit back, then forgive.” But we needn’t rehash that.
The question is, should we (and by “we” I of course mean our religious readers) emulate the Amish or not? Do they forgive too readily? Most of the writing about their reaction is along the same lines as Dreher’s, suggesting they’ve attained a state of grace which we can and should aspire to, but can’t really because we’re mere mortals and they somehow aren’t. That logic reminds me of how a vet once told me he finds it worrisome when the troops are admired too much. Not because it indicates a martial impulse in society but the opposite: treating the bravery of soldiers as superhuman puts it safely beyond the ken of what should be expected of us ordinary citizens. Is that what’s happening here with the Amish? I.e., “I wish I could be like them. Too bad I can’t.”
Flame on!
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It seems to me the only point is forgiving a dead person is to find peace in yourself, and I guess that’s good.
Inspired by the Amish’s example, I prayed for my enemies the other night. It’s nice to think there is a solution to things other than just bad things happening to people you don’t like.
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:16 PM
What is that solution?
Allahpundit on October 9, 2006 at 4:17 PM
OMG, AP, you really want to rehash last Friday? :-)
For myself… while the Amish ability to forgive so readily is admirable in some ways, I don’t think I could do it myself; and as Jeff Jacoby points out, I for one wouldn’t want society as a whole to forgive the slaughter of anyone; children or adults.
dalewalt on October 9, 2006 at 4:19 PM
Allahpundit,
Hell if I know. But I have numerous times prayed for things where I couldn’t imagine a solution, and yet one came.
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:20 PM
frankj, doesn’t the solution you speak of also mean that bad things (the worst) happening to people you don’t like? Eternal damnation is, uh, pretty bad. At the risk of having things thrown at me, I’ll ask this question… when you prayed for your enemies, did you pray for them to realize the error of their ways? Or pray for God to punish them?
dalewalt on October 9, 2006 at 4:22 PM
I agree.
Besides, I’m a little confused by the above point. Is the argument really being said that a murderer might decide not to murder if he/she thinks forgiveness won’t be forthcoming?
I mean the Amish didn’t have the authority to keep this man from escaping the law.
And I wouldn’t consider the Amish superior. If anything (without intending to insult the Amish), I’d say they have it easier than most. By isolating themselves from the rest of society, they’ve made it easier to live by the principles many Christians struggle with on a regular basis.
I don’t mean to take away from their noble act of forgiveness, but it’s impossible to say whether or not they would remain as forgiving if faced with attacks on a regular basis. What happened to them was horrible indeed, but it is not as though the Amish often find themselves at the mercy of a man with a gun.
Besides, what good is it to withhold forgiveness from the dead?
You’re clearly not harming the dead person.
Esthier on October 9, 2006 at 4:23 PM
dalewalt,
Realize the error of their ways. I don’t pray for more misery upon others.
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:23 PM
I guess I am in Allahs camp on this one. If forgiveness is all it is cracked up to be the Israelis would be paying the families of homicide bombers instead of the Iranians. You want to commit suicide fine, just leave everybody else out of it.
LakeRuins on October 9, 2006 at 4:24 PM
Sorry, I meant to write “I agree with frankj”.
Esthier on October 9, 2006 at 4:24 PM
Esthier,
The greater accomplishment would be to keep that forgiving attitude while immersed in modern society.
Of course, in this case, some of modern society’s evils found the Amish.
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:25 PM
I can and should strive to forgive those who have done ME wrong, because that is within my power.
Thus, I can learn to forgive the murdering scumbag in PA for making me angry.
But I can NEVER, EVER forgive him for what he did.
Only G-d can do that.
Oh, and when Jesus said “turn the other cheek”, he didn’t say “thou shalt be a doormat.” He was very specific about it being YOUR cheek, not somebody elses, not to mention that a slap on the cheek really isn’t quite in the same league as rape and murder. Cheek-slapping is an insult, at least it used to be, so what Jesus was trying to say with that was:
“Chill, and don’t start a blood-feud over a mere insult”, which is something that had been quite a common occurence in the past.
Trust me, if he had WANTED to say “no matter what they do, no matter if they rape, pillage and scatter the brains of your children on the walls, you must always lay down obediently and offer them another child to brain”, he would’ve said so. He was quite good at getting a point across.
Misha I on October 9, 2006 at 4:25 PM
But think about it like this. If a Christian prays for forgiveness of their enemies, this also means they’re praying for their enemies’s salvation.
Christians believe that when you become a Christian, you literally become a new person and as a new person, you would cease to do those things that made you an enemy in the first place and instead work to stop those things.
What’s better, Bin Ladin dead, or Bin Ladin fighting against the terrorism he helped to start?
My personal anger aside, I say the latter.
Esthier on October 9, 2006 at 4:26 PM
I am a Roman Catholic (semi-practicing…don’t ask) and even though the teachings of the church say to forgive, to turn the other cheek, I cannot abide the killing of innocents, especially children. I think the reason why the Amish are like this is because their culture is one of pacifism. To become angry, or to lash out would be against their entire culture. I also think that because the target of their anger took his own life, there is no point in lashing out. He cheated them out of justice, and since there can be no justice, they have to mourn in peace, so they forgive, because it is the only thing they can do. I am sure that they believe that his soul has been judged, and he is paying for his heinous sin in Hell. I personally think I could not forgive him had he murdered my daughter.
DakRoland on October 9, 2006 at 4:29 PM
Misha,
You make some good points, but the killer was a pitiful man. I don’t think it’s Chrisitan to respond to such a thing with just hate. We have to be careful of too much “righteous” anger. Killing our enemies is sometimes a necessity, but it should never be cathartic.
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:29 PM
DakRoland,
If you can’t forgive someone, you carry that anger your entire life. Then who is being punished?
frankj on October 9, 2006 at 4:34 PM
The Amish in America live (or at least strive to live) in a state of grace that is very difficult to achieve. And while it’s awe-inspiring in its delicate beauty, it is a delicate thing that can survive only because America as a whole has chosen to value and protect it.
Non-violence only works as long as someone else is willing to stop the violence.
We’ll always have our Eloi, at least so long as we want to have them.
KCSteve on October 9, 2006 at 4:37 PM
maybe the Amish were so able to forgive *because* he was already dead, and they believed that God would handle the punishment. At that point, why bother carrying around the hate? I wonder what their reaction would’ve been if the guy lived…
dalewalt on October 9, 2006 at 4:37 PM
Let’s also consider the whole passage:
And the actual intent of this passage:
Ecclesiastes 3
1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.
9 What profit has he who works in that in which he labors?
10 I have seen the burden which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with.
11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in their hearts, yet so that man can’t find out the work that God has done from the beginning even to the end.
12 I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice, and to do good as long as they live.
13 Also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy good in all his labor, is the gift of God.
14 I know that whatever God does, it shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it; and God has done it, that men should fear before him.
15 That which is has been long ago, and that which is to be has been long ago: and God seeks again that which is passed away.
16 Moreover I saw under the sun, in the place of justice, that wickedness was there; and in the place of righteousness, that wickedness was there.
17 I said in my heart, “God will judge the righteous and the wicked; for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”
18 I said in my heart, “As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.
19 For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.
20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knows the spirit of man, whether it goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, whether it goes downward to the earth?”
22 Therefore I saw that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his works; for that is his portion: for who can bring him to see what will be after him?
Lawrence on October 9, 2006 at 4:38 PM
dalewalt, when I pray for my enemies, I pray that God will change their hearts so they will, in turn change their ways.
As far as our leaders go- they have one MAJOR function above all other functions: to protect us.
They can pray for forgiveness if they believe what they have to do to protect those they are employed to protect is morally wrong, but they need to first fulfill their job’s duties.
An interesting and true point, IMHO.
NTWR on October 9, 2006 at 4:42 PM
Maybe it’s enlightenment. If there’s something I could wish upon some people who really, really need it, it would be
deathwisdom.Pablo on October 9, 2006 at 4:42 PM
While I guess that is why I ain’t Amish. I feel the same way about this one as I do the the killings in Beslan and as I felt about the killing of that kill recently in CO. I strive for consistency. I simply can’t forgive the taking of innocent life.
LakeRuins on October 9, 2006 at 4:42 PM
It is not for us to make the final judgement. That is what the Amish understand. It doesn’t matter whether or not they personally judge him.
In forgiving him, they are seeking his salvation. Which is too late now that he is dead. But there is also no reason to allow this episode to propagate more hatred.
It is a good thing that these little girls where raised faithfully and will be judged themselves appropriately, and go to Heaven. And that is what we must be happy about right now.
Lawrence on October 9, 2006 at 4:42 PM
frankj: I don’t know. Speaking in hypotheticals about something is difficult, because the real answers to such a horrendous situation are never known, until it happens. I just don’t think I could ever forgive a person for the senseless cold blooded murder of a child. Perhaps in time I could accept the loss, and move on, and perhaps then I could find the capacity within to forgive…but how can you reconcile such a heinous act? Someone once told me it was best not to judge a person for their actions, because we are quite inadequate to make such evaluations. It’s better to leave it up to a higher authority.
DakRoland on October 9, 2006 at 4:46 PM
There is a time for anger, a time for working through anger, and a time for letting go of it.
Forgiveness? I’m with Misha
Also agree w/ Misha re “turn the other cheek” thing.
This ‘pacifist Jesus’ is an egghead creation.
Stephen M on October 9, 2006 at 4:47 PM
Forgiveness may be divine, but I ain’t lookin’ to be divine.
SouthernGent on October 9, 2006 at 4:49 PM
Yes. You can.
Treating the bravery of soldiers as superhuman is exactly the right thing to do. It sets the example of what we are all capable of achieving. In thinking that we average citizens (believers) are unable to attain what others attain we hobble ourselves against our own potential.
Or, more appropriately, the temptation to see ourselves as less then we are hobbles us against the potential given to us by God.
Lawrence on October 9, 2006 at 4:51 PM
Isn’t it so that the Amish turn their back upon human progress? If they want no part of the greatest technical achievements of their country, aren’t they in effect rejecting the best mankind has to offer and its brightest minds? And seems to me their pacifism is possible only because there are others willing to fight. Hardly a commendable thing. I feel sorry for the kids who grow up under such backward thinking, and it is surely nothing we should wish to emulate. Don’t they have much more in common with the reality-challenged “back to nature” Left?
Halley on October 9, 2006 at 4:52 PM
Actually, Halley, you’re quite off the mark. They are so ulra-conservative, they are willing to shun the conveniences of modern living, because they are so dedicated to their belief in God. In every way, they are the exact opposite of Leftists. They aren’t stereotypical vegetarian, tree-hugging, political activist types. They don’t care about that. You should meet some Amish. Your eyes will be opened wide. My parents live in Amish Country here in Western NY. Their across-the-road neighbor is Amish. You know…I should talk with Gideon and see what his take is on all of this…
DakRoland on October 9, 2006 at 4:58 PM
LakeRuins, please avoid confusing forgiveness with suicidal behavior. Asking or inviting a crime to be done against you is not love, meekness, or forgiving, it is insanity. The text of Eccleliastes 3 posted by Lawrence is very useful in this concept. However, the 20th verse which is highlighted there is oftimes used by non-believers in the Bible to say “See, we return to dust, there’s no Heaven”. Those verses are speaking only of the earthly body, which returns to the dust. The point is that any actions or emotions which are centered around the temporal flesh are unprofitable compared with concerns of the spirit, which is eternal.
It is that very fact that makes it possible for a Christian (or practicing Jew) to forgive as God expects. That whatever happens to me here on Earth is temporary, but the afterlife is eternal. “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”.
It is not in the hands of anyone commenting here to forgive or unforgive the murderer of the amish girls. You are responsible to forgive those who harm you, not strangers in another state. But the forgiveness which God expects of us is far less for the sake of the “forgiven” person as for our own emotional well being. Hatred and bitterness make it extremely difficult for God to use a person do go anything special.
And as I stated in that thread, there’s no value in me saying I forgive or don’t forgive that man, nor is there value in praying for him. The moment his life ended he was in God’s hand, in the spiritual condition he held at the time. Assuming he was in a state of rejection of God’s grace, his eternity will be punishment. Supposing the nearly impossible-to-imagine event that he truly repented before pulling the trigger on himself, all things are possible with God. I am not his judge, nor is any other mortal.
Freelancer on October 9, 2006 at 5:06 PM
Halley,
I would disagree that “technological achievement” is necessarily the best thing mankind has to offer. To me, having the wisdom to use these technological achievements would be the better gift.
I suspect the Amish are far wiser and a better gift to Mankind than we give them credit.
.
GT on October 9, 2006 at 5:12 PM
Bottom line: I’ll forgive the S.O.B. when he’s in the ground and can’t hurt anyone else (even prison guards). Only then.
I admire the Amish and Mennonites immensely, but they couldn’t survive if there weren’t good people willing to do violence on evil in their behalf. The gentlest of sheep need the tougest of sheepdogs to keep the wolves out.
Mike O on October 9, 2006 at 5:22 PM
From the other topic:
AP, you assume that it is irrational to follow what Jesus said, so you put Christians in between a rock and a hard place: either they are irrational (Quakers) or they are bad Christians (Christian hawks). A lot of Christians responded to you, falling into your trap, by trying and failing to reconcile what you felt was a contradiction. Your reasoning is flawed, because you are making flawed assumptions.
The postulate to your reasoning is that a person is either a fundamentalist Christian or not at all. Either the person follows everything in the Bible literally and absolutely, or why bother? This is ridiculous. The problem with Islam is with people who follow your approach: people who believe they must try to follow the Koran literally to the letter without regard for what is rational. These people are terrorists and terrorist supporters. The ‘moderate’ Muslims are those Muslims who read the suras that call for jihad and striking off heads and choose not to follow them. Religion has vast grey areas of people who are Muslim, or Christian, or something else, who do not accept every single part of their Holy Book as literal religious law which ought to be applied today as an absolute. Some people do follow literal interpretations to the extreme, and this results in Christian Quakers and Muslim Terrorists. Both groups are wrong, though one is dangerous and the other benign.
Rational people can dispense with edicts that would appear to be irrational if applied literally and absolutely in today’s world by looking at the context of the statement and adopting an interpretation that does not lead to an irrational result. You demean this approach as ‘wiggle room’. It is not an attempt to weasel out of conflicts between irrational religion and the rational human mind, it is instead a process by which to determine how to interpret and apply the passages of a Holy Book to today’s world. You assume religion is irrational, and see this as Christian attempts to constantly wiggle out of contradictions. Christians like me, on the other hand, see faith in God as inherently rational, and see this as adopting the RIGHT interpretation that is consistent with God’s gift of reason. The difference is one of faith: we have it, you don’t.
Your problem, AP, is that you see this issue as black and white. Either a person agrees to reduce themselves to irrationality for the sake of religion, or they become an athiest. You obviously felt this was the choice left to you at some point in the past, and you chose to become an atheist. Most of us Christians have faced this same choice, and have dealt with it in a different fashion than you have. Most of us reconciled faith with rationality rather than simply deem faith to be irrational and throw the baby out with the bathwater as you have.
I can tell you that personally, I will always subordinate Christianity to reason and rationality. I believe (as many other Christians do), that rationality is derived from God, so to the extent that rationality and our understanding of God through the Bible come into conflict, we must reach a new understanding of God, as opposed to taking the easy route and simply becoming atheists.
The world would be a lot better off if more Muslims adopted an approach to the Koran similar to the Christian hawk’s approach to the Bible. The collary to your argument, AP, is that moderate Muslims ought to either start striking off heads or admit that the Koran is irreconcilable with reason and become atheists.
kaltes on October 9, 2006 at 5:35 PM
Besides, as Christians we’re told that if we expect God to forgive us for our sins, sins that caused Jesus to sacrifice Himself on a cross, then we had better forgive others who sin against us.
Esthier on October 9, 2006 at 7:27 PM
Yes, let’s rehash it daily. Machiavelli said the Christians give the world over to tyrants. The Lord Christ should rebut that charge or, if not, then Christians should do it on His behalf.
Kralizec on October 9, 2006 at 9:50 PM
I approve of self-sacrifice, but I can’t condone a god’s sacrificing himself for just anyone and everyone. That’s backwards to a striking degree.
Kralizec on October 9, 2006 at 9:56 PM
Like everything else in life, I have a rather screwed up way of looking at forgiveness.
Forgiveness, and holding a grudge, both have a place and a usefulness where warranted. When I forgive someone for something bad they do, it is not for them that I do this … it is for me. It does not absolve them of their wrongdoing, they may not even know of my forgiveness and that does not matter. Where it matters is within my soul and in how much negative emotional energy I hold onto. To forgive is to release that and let go of the toxic emotions. This is how the Amish achieve and maintain their awesome state of Grace. You cannot have Grace while anger, hatred, jealousy and wrath inhabit the soul.
I am not Amish, I’m not even much of a Christian, and I do see the need sometimes to hold onto the anger and hatred, for a purpose, to achieve a goal. Anger, while toxic to the soul, in small doses can be motivating. It is what kept me going after a horrible divorce in which I lost my children. Hatred of my Ex enabled me to move on, to create my own life. When it was time, forgiveness allowed me to let go of the anger and hatred and to heal my soul. The strength of my soul then allowed me to stand up for the rights of my children and fight for their right to be with me. The Grace I have earned now allows me to cherish every moment I have with them, and appreciate the miracle that they are, even when they do drive me crazy. I even find that to be enjoyable.
There are some things, though, that I cannot let go of. Ten years on and I still am filled with rage when I think about my brother’s murder, the man who got away with it and the “justice” system that allowed that to happen. I suppose this would be understandable if I had turned that anger into the energy needed to change the system, or join the fight against youth gangs or something. But no, the most I have done is bitch very loudly about how unfair it was. I am just not ready to let that go. I may never be.
On the other hand, my parents, born-again Christians, forgave their son’s killer, and they went further than that … they became involved in youth-at-risk outreach programs that sought to turn those kids away from gangs and toward Christ. How much good it did for those kids, I don’t know. But I do know it allowed my parents to heal and move on, to be able to say my brother did not die in vain.
I didn’t mean to ramble on so much, I could have just said that forgiving is a selfish (in a good way) thing, it heals the forgiver. The forgivee usually doesn’t give much of a shit.
LissaKay on October 9, 2006 at 10:34 PM
I’m going with the “May God have mercy on his soul….because he sure needs it.”
Of course, there’s mercy, and there’s justice. Justice would have been teachers packing heat and killing this guy before he could have done what he did (like, say, Israeli teachers do).
I don’t understand forgiving those who don’t even ask for it, and definitely not for those who don’t even show they’re sorry. And just because one has forgiven doesn’t mean one can’t seek justice as well. This is my self-interest speaking, as I was a plaintiff in a medical malpractice lawsuit (where my dad ended up dying due to a horrible misdiagnosis). I would like to say I forgave those guys, but it’s been more like I “let go” of any obsession over it though never forgiving the principal actors.
One can “let go” of the issue, but not forgive. Just because you haven’t forgiven doesn’t mean you’ve got hate eating you up on the inside.
Being Catholic, I’m a believer that no one is beyond salvation, that God’s mercy can save anybody, no matter how horrible their sins. That said, I also believe in Purgatory. No cheap grace here.
meep on October 10, 2006 at 6:51 AM
He could have restrained himself while in the midst of his crime. Even the thief on the cross acknowledged his sins and was beyond the point of being able to do anything about restoring the goods to those from whom he stole. The difference here is that this man knew what he was doing was wrong. Everything in his letter suggests a pretext for committing this atrocity. He made up his mind, and showed no remorse. We don’t need to forgive the damned. He most certainly is damned for all eternity. Sometimes I think Christians think that all they have to do in the midst of a vile spree is just invoke the name of Jesus and all is forgiven. They should read the book of Romans…it dispells that notion quite promptly.
Jewel on October 10, 2006 at 9:28 AM
The teachings of Christ and of the Church could not be clearer on this issue. The Amish are simply actually living their faith. I think most of us recognize they are doing the right thing in forgiving this man; it’s just so hard for most of us to act as God wants us to act. We are imperfect, and about the best we can hope for is to recognize ourselves as such.
I was struck that even the media seemed to be somewhat restrained in their reporting. Seems even the media can be inspired by profound goodness.
honora on October 10, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Oh and BTW, forgiveness does not obviate defending yourself or punishing criminals.
honora on October 10, 2006 at 11:05 AM
Kaltes, you most certainly do not speak for me on the points you attempt to make in your post. In fact, you make a worse error than you accuse AP of committing. You believe there is a gap between Christianity and rationality, and YOU know where the difference lies. Nothing could be further from the truth. Christianity IS rational.
Please, offer one example of a commandment or expectation from the Bible that fits this description.
Kralizec, I might agree with you if this world we can see with our eyes were the end of all things. Christ’s sacrifice makes it possible for ANYONE, who comes to a realization that they are sinful and unable to to be worthy of God on their own, to be redeemed. And exactly where would a human draw the line between those for whom the Cross is a reachable source of salvation and those for whom it is not? There is no distinction from one person to the next, whether they are Mother Teresa or Charles Manson, that in the power of their own works they are not worthy of Heaven. ONLY the blood of Christ pays the penalty that each of us deserves.
The real question then becomes what you want, justice or mercy? Imagine a murderer caught red-handed standing at trial demanding justice. That’s us before God if we reject the sacrifice of His Son. Whether you condone it or not.
Freelancer on October 10, 2006 at 4:20 PM
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