The Foley Scandal
posted at 9:29 am on October 3, 2006 by Bryan
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I guess the difference is that the Republicans are ashamed when they are caught violating standards, and the Democrats (Stubbs) are defiant.
As far as suspending the page system? Yeah, it would curb the abuses, but it would also remove the benefits of teaching the pages about the government system. I have no experience with the page system so I don’t know how prevelant the abuse is. Perhaps it is like the Boy Scouts. Certainly a low level of abuse exists in the Boy Scouts. But not enough to justify eliminating it. Instead we go after the predators who violate the law. As I would like to hope is the situation here with the page system.
Just my two cents.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 9:44 AM
By “it”, I mean the Boy Scouts. Not the abuse.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 9:45 AM
P.S.
Michelle, you mention in your vent that you wrote about your experiences as a page. Perhaps you might want to include that link on the side of this vent.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 9:47 AM
Open Letter to Congressman John Shimkus
As a constituent of yours in Illinois’ 19th Congressional District, I am writing to call for your resignation from congress, effective immediately. As the chairman of the House Page Board, your conduct in the matter of the Tom Foley situation has been less than commendable and calls into question your ability to lead ethically and effectively, and in the best interest of the people of Illinois. Your assertion that you became aware of Mr. Foley’s most damning electronic communications only recently is completely irrelevant. As it is now publicly known, you had full knowledge of Mr. Foley’s other contacts, which while less explicit, were more than enough to raise considerable suspicion and warrant a full investigation into his involvement with certain pages with whom he had corresponded. You had a direct and pressing responsibility to uphold the dignity of the House, the Republican Party, to uphold the rule of law and ultimately, to safeguard the pages you oversaw. You have failed on all counts, and now must do the right thing and resign. I voted for you previously in the 2004 general and the 2006 primary, decisions I now regret. I had planned to support you once again this November, but needless to say, will now be doing no such thing.
john98 on October 3, 2006 at 10:00 AM
I hope Michelle does link about her page experience. She talked about it on C-SPAN several years back.
Hopefully, this will uncover the dozens of other predatory pervs in the House and Senate now that there is a laser beam on the issue.
Unfortunately, if the GOP loses the House, they will have Foley as a scapegoat while turning a blind eye to allowing a free-for-all at the border, bloated government, and a PC War on Terror.
Valiant on October 3, 2006 at 10:21 AM
Given what we know about the political bias and social dereliction of the media — the primary mechanism for exposing what our governmental representatives don’t want us to know — I have always had a hard time with these stories from Washington. Is this innocent activity blown into something seedy by the Drive-By press, or do these men and women in congress represent a sample of our society that is skewed to the perverse?
Michelle’s Vent this morning seems to indicate strongly toward the latter. Maybe politics, by its very nature, is too rough a climate for normal people. It has often been observed that anyone who would willfully put their families through the disgusting process of election must be nuts to begin with.
Clearly we need to remove young people from this atmosphere, lest they all turn out like the filth that brought the world Wonkette and her queer friends.
Great call, Michelle.
Jaibones on October 3, 2006 at 10:39 AM
I think exploiting children is despicable and I agree it is high time to redo this program.
Make it available to high school grads who are 18 years or older. No longer should any parent have to worry about their CHILD being preyed on by some pervert while serving the US government.
The permissive attitude that allowed this sordid and disgusting behavior must stop NOW.
Children are NOT SEX OBJECTS!
labwrs on October 3, 2006 at 10:59 AM
Well you can’t bring up Stubbs without bringing up Daniel Crane. Same session, only Crane was having an affair with an underage female page. Both were censured. Gingrich wanted to boot them both out and the Republican House refused to take that action. Stubbs (an admitted homosexual) was elected several more times. Crane (a “values”/holier than thou conservative) was not.
Glass houses and all that.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 11:16 AM
I’m beside myself with disbelief here. For the purposes of not convicting an innocent man, I’ll skip over Foley for the time being. Let’s examine the former Congressboys mentioned in the vent.
Um…excuse me. Can anyone tell me why those FELONS were not put under a jail somewhere? A grown man (not some 19 year old with his 17 year old girlfriend) admits to a sexual relationship with a minor: that’s called Statutory Rape. How the FREAKIN’ EVER-LOVIN’… could these men be allowed to run for / stay in the Legislature? I and any other man (not in power) would be paying dearly for those offences in the Federal Correctional System.
And Foley? Well, he’s innocent as of now, but if what they’re saying is true, then I’ve watched Primetime or Dateline or whatever put guys away for less. Anybody think he’ll go to jail?
Fed up over a quintuple standard,
Michael
PS – The Constitution Party ain’t lookin’ that bad…
y2church on October 3, 2006 at 11:22 AM
Last two days, most of the vids here at Hot Air load the graphic for the vid, but once the page is fully loaded, the graphic disappears and I can’t get the vid to play. Is anyone else experiencing this?
–Jason
JasonColeman on October 3, 2006 at 11:23 AM
Jason, I am not experiencing anything like that at my end.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 11:27 AM
I guess since Studds didn’t throw stones, it made it ok for him to keep his seat, right honora?
BTW, if you watched the video, you would have noted that Crane was mentioned as well as Newt’s call for both of them to resign from congress at the time.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 11:35 AM
thirteen28: above I state “Gingrich wanted boot them both..”.
I was not responding to the video, I was responding to the clearly one sided statement from EFG that Stubbs is an example of Dem duplicity. And of course it wasn’t ok to stay in the House–the point is that both of these creeps ran for re-election, both supported by their parties. The fact that Crane lost hardly covers the Republicans with glory. Good grief.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 11:41 AM
Well said Michelle.
This is outrageous, for sure.
Sounds like it is time to end this program of hiring young pages. Or at least raise the age requirements.
Our Islamo-fascist enemies see this stuff in our news, and it only serves to justify their opinion that we are the evil ones.
Lawrence on October 3, 2006 at 11:43 AM
There is a school of thought that says that people are going increasingly intolerant of sex or sexual overtones involving kids. One reason is that the light is shining more on this than ever before, plus the fact that other types sexual activity (homosexual, divorce, adultery) are more tolerated in public figures leaving this the last line in the sand so to speak. Don’t know if any of this is true–what do you think y2church?
honora on October 3, 2006 at 11:45 AM
My first post. I have been watching this site for months waiting to get invited on my thoughts and views. I will chime in when appropriate but we seem to be making laws or rules to cover rules and laws already in place. Just enforcing what we have may cut congress sessions in half.
riccangolf on October 3, 2006 at 12:08 PM
I think this is a great lesson for the pages. I hope they learn that our Government punishes those who do wrong, who are guilty of criminal behavior. These aren’t little pre-schoolers-they are teen-agers already making moral judgements about the world they are inheriting. They know right from wrong, and I hope that they find that the Government does also.
Doug on October 3, 2006 at 12:08 PM
Jason and HA team,
I am suddenly experiencing that same issue. Once the page loads, the video disappears, and I am unable to watch it.
What changed on the website? It was working fine yesterday.
-FFOG
Fogpig on October 3, 2006 at 12:10 PM
At the risk of being snarky, what adults in Washington??? Genuine adults, there, are few and far between.
Aunt B on October 3, 2006 at 12:24 PM
Well honora,
Your point may well be true. If so, it is simply a sad commentary that the ever advancing tides of cultural “enlightenment” have washed away all those lines that God laid out on the first beach.
Don’t worry. NAMBLA is carrying buckets up the beach as we speak.
y2church on October 3, 2006 at 12:25 PM
Honora
Honora, doesn’t your example just help prove my case? In both cases they admitted to having sex with minors. But Crane (R) apologized, and Crane (D) did not. But I am not going to try to argue that Democrats are vile wicked people and that Repubicans are virtuous saints. Cuz that’s just crazy talk.
I will admit that your last sentence, “Glass houses and all that” had me confused. I google it and came up with nothing. My friends and co-workers had never heard of it either. I even asked my boss about it in the middle of a meeting and he was at a loss. Finally the smart I.T. guy filled me in. “Dude, it’s a freakin’ joke. Like your computer skills. Now quit running a hundred interwindows simultaneously and you won’t have these problems. See that red “x” in the upper right corner? It’s there for a reason. Use it.”
So now I see what you mean. The glass house is really a greenhouse (which is a house made of glass) wich is used to keep fruits and vegetable (which is a metafore for democrats) warm and happy. But also the greenhouse can be a bad thing, cuz it happens when pollution from my car and my SPF-45 sunblock get into the atmosphere. Cuz these are flooro-chloro-carbonic molycules that migrate into the natural ecosystem of the ohzone layer. There they crowd out the ohzone’s native organic molycules and reproduce uncontrollably. Then when they do that, they trap the suns rays and won’t let them leave anymore, like a roach hotel. (Also I think hairspray has something to do with this too, but at a lower income level) So then the temperatures start to rise everywhere, and all this hot air from the santa-annas raises the sea level by globally melting our ice cubes. And the punch line is that we right now are at a internet site called “Hot Air”, and the reason this air is keeping us warm and comfortable, is because we are in a green house. Which is really a glass house!!!
Anyway, I glad you like jokes n riddles too. I liked that one, even thought it made my head hurt cuz it was reely reely hard and I had to think about it for a reely reely long time. Since you told me a joke, I figured I cud do the same for you. So get ready honora, cuz ready or not, here it comes!
Round she is, yet flat as a board.
Altar of the Lupine Lords.
Jewel in black velvet, pearl in the sea,
Unchanging, yet changing for all eternity.
Can you figure it out that riddle, honora? If you give up, let me know and I will tell you what it means!
Glass houses and all that.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 12:28 PM
Opps. I didn’t mean for that last sentence of “Glass houses and all” that to sneak in.
Dang, a preview button would be nice…
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 12:30 PM
The difference is Crane apologized and then got electorally booted by voters in his own district (read: Republicans abandoned him on election day). Studds never apologized and was repeatedly re-elected (read: Democratic voters gave him a pass).
To sum up: EFG’s point stands.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 12:31 PM
Oh well, as long as he apologized. And again, I believe it’s significant that this Crane clown ran as a “family values” candidate. So while both he and Stubbs are both creeps and criminals, only one is a hypocrit.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 12:37 PM
The House was under Democrat control in 1983. The Senate was in the hands of the GOP, but it had no role in the Crane/Stubbs scandals. That responsibility fell to the Democrat-held House, which opted for censure.
Bryan on October 3, 2006 at 12:39 PM
And up to that point you were soooo clever. Hint: any riddle that can be looked up on the internet is kind of, well, lame.
If you really enjoy brain teasers, a few months ago, Esquire had a quiz they humbly called “Hardest Quiz Ever”. They may still have it on line. The beauty of it was that the internet, nor any reference materials helped you.
Of course the answers are probably posted too.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 12:41 PM
:39 PM
You’re right as usual. The Gingrich reference threw me. Shame on Tip et al.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 12:45 PM
Wow, talk about bizarro world. Let me get this straignt – Crane fesses up to what he did wrong, apologizes for it, and he’s a hypocrite. Meanwhile Stubbs/Studds (I thought it was the latter spelling) does the same thing that Crane does, but doesn’t apologize for it when caught, and somehow he’s a better man for it?
Sorry, I’d rather be the on the side of the hypocrites in that case. At least they have the capacity for shame.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 12:51 PM
So, are you ready to conceed defeat, Honora? My riddle has bested you, admitt it!
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 12:59 PM
What on earth could it be…..
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:12 PM
Found the link:
Reflections of a Former Intern
jtdavies on October 3, 2006 at 1:13 PM
Wait a minute, maybe not earth. Perhaps sun? No that’s not it….
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:15 PM
Everybody wins!!! Don’t you love it when it works out that way???
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:16 PM
If you’re going to quote me Maureen Dowd, at least put the full quote so that it’s in context. But I can understand your motive for not since democrats are incapable of shame, as my full statement highlighted.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 1:20 PM
Does circular logic make you dizzy literally or just figuratively?
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:24 PM
I’m sitting here in disbelief with the commetary I see today.
Personally, I could give a rats ass about what Stubbs, Crane or any other pervert did years ago. I also do not think it matters whether the Dems or the GOP were in charge of the House or the Senate then. I mean, come on, these moral equivalencies sure make our side feel better now don’t they?
The sad commentary Michelle brings up is even seeing the need to cancel the program. Are we really to believe that our representatives in the Senate and the House are such lowlifes that they cannot even be trusted with our sons and daughters for a semester?
I’m certainly not naive, and know full well that in any given population there will be a few deviants. However, what I am seeing here is a condemnation of the entire Congress and I refuse to believe that is the case.
The deviates should be sought out and punished, period. If we, from both sides of the aisle, can’t agree on that then what difference does it make who wins in November?
BacaDog on October 3, 2006 at 1:25 PM
Are evasions and straw men your only form of counter-argument?
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 1:26 PM
honora, the moon
Entelechy on October 3, 2006 at 1:26 PM
I am sorry Honora, but both of your answers are wrong. It is not the Earth. Or any variant thereof. And it is not the sun. Or any variant thereof.
Well, I should have told you this at the start. You only get three guesses. So this is your last chance. It’s kinda like sudden death overtime for you, honora.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 1:27 PM
Thanks sweetie!!!
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:28 PM
Entelechy, you were missing an ‘r’ in that post ;)
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 1:29 PM
Oh sweet mother of God. Do you people take some kind of humor killing drug??? You cannot be this dim and cross the street by yourself.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:31 PM
they haven’t exactly set stellar examples, have they? Personally, I can’t believe parents would send their underage children to washington as pages anyway – at least wait until they are 18!!!! The program is obviously riddled with problems.
pullingmyhairout on October 3, 2006 at 1:33 PM
BTW, Hastert is on Rush as I type. tune it. should be interesting listening.
pullingmyhairout on October 3, 2006 at 1:34 PM
Why? You apparently can.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 1:35 PM
I am sorry honora. That does not count. Since you have cheated, you have been disqualified.
I am very, very disapointed in you.
Oh and by the way, honora? I did not look that joke up on the internet. I remembered it from my days of Dungeons and Dragons all by myself, thank you very much.
I am NOT some sort of internet nerd!
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 1:37 PM
honora, you were saved just in time, with 3 strikes and all :) However, I can’t take credit – here the link
thirteen28, I’m beat and ’slow’ today – I’m sorry to not understand your ‘r’ post.
Entelechy on October 3, 2006 at 1:38 PM
It’s ok … review it later when your not beat and I’m sure it will be clear to you.
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 1:46 PM
Oh, and when I wrote
I meant that I remembered it without any help from the internet.
Because I can see how it that sentense could be mis-interpreted as that I was playing Dungeons and Dragons all alone, all by myself. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Lots of creative children can and had to be both Dungeon Masters and Role Players simultaneously. I chose to play alone! It helped me to develope into the man that I am today.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 1:50 PM
Bless your heart.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 1:56 PM
You’re right about that. Agreed too that some of them are definitly not setting the standard for acceptable behavior. Whatever the problems are, they need to be fixed for sure.
I don’t know………maybe I’m wrong about this. But, I still find it hard to believe that 100 Senators and over 400 Representatives are all lurking with their thumbs poised on the Blackberry keypad thinking of ways to IM or email dirty messages to a page. I just think it is an overreaction to condemn an entire party or even an entire institution for the actions of a few.
BacaDog on October 3, 2006 at 2:20 PM
Because if you’re a Democrat, then it is simply a life-style choice.
But if you’re a Republican, then your a pervert.
No. I don’t get it either. I can only sit back and watch, and strive to stifle my gag reflex.
Lawrence on October 3, 2006 at 2:26 PM
Thanks honora. But the real hero here is this man
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 2:29 PM
I think the real issue is power. (getting off the topic of riddles, D&D…Damn, I played that in the 70-80’s!)
The common theme to both the house and the senate for over 200 years has been graft and corruption. people in that lofty area of government are infected by a “What? How dare you question me!” or “I am a United States Senator! I will do as I please!”
This corruption extends to both parties. Instead of pointing out that dems are more scummier then republicans (or vice versa) we should be looking at the simple fact. An adult man used his position to facilitate his pervisions.
You can fill in the blanks to which man. Clinton, Jeffords, Crane, Frist etc. The bottom line is that all of these men, and many more, have used their lofty perch to abuse their power, to abuse those under them, and to abuse us, the American people.
These tin hat despots are not gods, they are men. They do not sit on high and, with a wave of their noble hand, pass down blessings upon us poor peons. They are supposed to be working for us. And they are not.
They get into power, maybe with good intentions. Then they get used to power, then they abuse power, then they do whatever it takes to hold on to power.
The only solution I can see are term limits. Being a politician should not be a career.
Wyrd on October 3, 2006 at 3:01 PM
When this story first broke, I was pretty skeptical, figuring it was a stunt by the LeftStreamMedia and I would need to see proof. Well, I acknowledge I have seen enough proof now. I condemn Mr. Foley’s behavior.
I do not wish to read any more of this story. Extending it with ever more salacious details makes Mr. Ross and Ms. Sauer look like voyeurs and mastur-baiters.
RushBaby on October 3, 2006 at 3:05 PM
I know a lot of people who support this. The concern I have is that once you have limits on the folks who are elected, the power will begin to accumulate with staffers and lobbyists–even more than is the case today. I believe a better solution is a moratorium on gerrymandering. This has been so abused by both sides that you have only about 60 House seats that are even considered to be in play.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 3:11 PM
Other than suspending the page program (baby/bathwater), I agree 100% with your comments, Michelle.
And thank you for keeping your focus on the issue rather than turning it into yet another partisan who’s on first.
The Ugly American on October 3, 2006 at 3:25 PM
For some people, being a hypocrite is worse than being a sexual predator.
(these people are alternately known as either “liberals” or “democrats”)
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 3:46 PM
Some people like to present false choices. These people are alternately known as “idealogues” or “uneducated”.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 4:18 PM
Well honora, I don’t know what a false choice is. But no matter. I am happy in my uneducated ignorance. Because I am ignorant. So I intend to keep things that way. Cuz I’m a fan of happyness. And thus ingnorance. But enough of that.
Do you think that Stubbs was right to do what he did?
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 4:28 PM
Of course not.
honora on October 3, 2006 at 4:35 PM
Cool. Good answer. Thanks.
So if you have any political questions you feel like asking me, I’ll answer them for you as directly and as honestly as I can.
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 4:37 PM
Stopping Gerrymandering would help. But their has to be some sort of accountability. Cal Thomas Wrote a fairly good article today about the sex scandals in Washington. They don’t hurt the politician. They may resign in shame, but then a few years later out come the books, the speaking engagements, the fancy parties etc. I do not expect those seeking politicle office to be perfect. I expect them to be flawed individuals. But I do expect them to know right from wrong, and I do expect them to have the moral fiber to resist cheating, stealing, lying, abusing their power etc. I know thats too much to ask for. But should it be?
BTW Honora, EFG, when was the wedding? You two sound like a married couple now :p
EFG, you know you can play D&D online now? For the ultimate in geekyness!
(Not as good as a pen and paper campaign though)
Wyrd on October 3, 2006 at 4:44 PM
Yeah, well Allah’s got his hot little blog flirtations going on with Bethany and Kirsten Powers and MKH. So I figured why should he have all the cool blog romance? Of course he is a international superstar of the blog world with a trackback list that would choke a horse. Whereas I skulk about in the comment section of a blog or two.
Of course AP always refers to himself as a Beta male, so I guess that makes me even lower. I guess I really put the Epsilon in EFG.
Oh just great! Now I’m never going to leave the house. My last source of human contact will wither away!
EFG on October 3, 2006 at 4:55 PM
Do you think Stubbs was any better than Crane?
thirteen28 on October 3, 2006 at 5:37 PM
Jason, not sure if this is the same problem but I have to put the video on pause and wait for the gray line to go all the way across the screen before it will play for me. Once the gray line reaches the end then I hit play again and it works.
As for suspending the Page Program-that would be a shame if that happened. There was a Page at one of the schools I taught at and he came back with such wonderful stories of his experience. It really made an impression on him and other students. While it may be time to tweak it a bit (maybe college freshman instead of high school students), it would probably be a loss to do away with it for those kids who have the dream to be a Page.
I cannot get over the fact that this Stubbs was elected again and again. I believe he was from the Cape Cod, MA, district. Maybe that explains it.
Catie96706 on October 3, 2006 at 6:04 PM
Jason,
I had the same problamo. I went in and cleared some temporary files. Disk cleanup. about a gig’s worth. Went back in and it ran right off the bat.
I wonder what Clinton thinks about alll this Tommyrot. Probably “No comment!”
Drtuddle on October 3, 2006 at 6:21 PM
FOLEY SCANDAL: Besotten and Gomorrah.
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on October 3, 2006 at 8:21 PM
FOLEY SCANDAL: Gives new meaning to comments about “turning the page.”
Dr. Charles G. Waugh on October 3, 2006 at 8:26 PM
EFG,
Good god, WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING TODAY???? You’ve been ranting like crrrrraaaazzzzyyyyy. dude, stop it already. (or are you a “dudette?”).
pullingmyhairout on October 3, 2006 at 9:32 PM
This has to be, without a doubt, the weirdest thread of comments I have ever seen here at Hot Air.
I disagree with the idea of disbanding the program. What about 16 year old kids that *gasp* have jobs? They are just as susceptible to adults with authority over them. I think the solution should start a few years back with better preparation of the kids. I’m not about to point fingers at parents or students – the people at fault here are the perpetrators of the crime, period. I will say, however, that the disconnect between children and adults is wider than ever before, and that leaves children more vulnerable to advances from adults. When you think about schools, kids, for the most part, spend their time with others of their own age group, with little variation. Historically, this is very unusual, and is not representative of the real world in any way. I think that one of the consequences of this is that the only adults that children learn to relate to are their teachers and their parents, and school+homework+many 2 income households is shrinking even parental interaction. I call that a recipe for trouble.
My $.02
theholyhermit on October 4, 2006 at 5:32 AM
Savage was right again. Lets face it, gays are inherently pedophiles.
LZVandy on October 4, 2006 at 7:05 AM
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