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Iran attack: Thousands of sorties, terrorist reprisals, virtually no benefit

posted at 1:30 pm on September 18, 2006 by Allahpundit
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Ellsberg’s been begging “conscientious insiders” in the military to leak the plans. We’re halfway there: Time claims to have been given a broad operational outline.

The verdict? Pointless. A succcessful attack would only delay the program, and only then by two or three years. An air campaign isn’t going to dislodge the mullahs, either, and if there’s any lesson for western powers from Israel’s war with Hezbollah, it’s that you should target the disease, not the symptoms. Amazing that we haven’t internalized that yet after five years, but then, Israel hasn’t internalized it after 58.

There are, of course, more than enough ground troops to force regime change in Tehran — in a combined Euro-American force. There’ll be no such force, because as we know, defense of the west is strictly America’s responsibility.

Time’s article is behind a reg wall but Defense Tech has excerpts. Chirac thinks we’ve still got a long, loooong way to go before we start talking about anything crazy, like sanctions.

I’ll end on a light note by saying that I haven’t seen groping like this since Kerry announced Edwards as his vice-presidential nominee. Or since Ace and I went to see “Brokeback Mountain” together.


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An American attack in Iran may take a few days, with hundreds and maybe thousands of sorties. According to the report, it will help in delaying the Iranian nuclear program by two to the three years.

The Israelis took out Saddam’s nuclear facility in 1982 with very limited sorties. Twenty years later he still lacked any such facilities. Why? He knew the minute counter intelligence learned of the construction of a new nuke site, the Israelis would make an encore visit. Like a lab rat, Saddam learned a valuable lesson.

The lab rat in the cage next to Saddam can be taught the same lesson.

fogw on September 18, 2006 at 1:47 PM

I recommend reading Charles Krauthammer’s latest column.

Cary on September 18, 2006 at 1:55 PM

They claim to be proceding with a nuclear program for entirely peaceful purposes so lets help them. Instead of bombing the hardened nuclear facilities bomb what little refinery ability they have and other electrical producing plants. I am sure this will provide the added incentive to convert to nuclear power for electricity for their citizens.
Why isn’t anybody worried about the lack of power transmission lines from Iran’s nuclear facilities? You know if you are going to use nuclear energy for power you got to get it from the facility that produces it to the people and businesses that use it. I am sure the producers of “Loose Change” can explain this little inconsitency since it is what they do best, based an entire theory on missing evidence.

LakeRuins on September 18, 2006 at 1:59 PM

Any delay in Iran’s nuclear program is worth the cost. These hand wringers must stop worrying about making this rouge nation mad and worry more about preserving humanity. If you’ve ever been in a street fight you know that the worst thing you could do is not fight back with everything you have. Appeasing Islamofascist nations will get you nothing but enslavement or death.

rplat on September 18, 2006 at 2:16 PM

I’ll end on a light note by saying that I haven’t seen groping like this since Kerry announced Edwards as his vice-presidential nominee. Or since Ace and I went to see “Brokeback Mountain” together.

Be reminded of this, our deity and relentless writer, and groper :) Scoll down, to see both pictures…

Entelechy on September 18, 2006 at 2:20 PM

Entelechy
Thanks for ruining my lunch! *LOL*

I think we have a plan for the Iranians and their midget mullah. I HOPE we have a good plan and I bet we do and PART of that plan is MINDOPS..mess with their heads and have them looking UP every time they hear a “whoosh”.

labwrs on September 18, 2006 at 2:24 PM

I love Americans’ decency toward each other and toward me, but I hate their decency toward their enemies, because it amounts to so much cruelty toward themselves and their real allies. The House of Saud uses the money we pay for oil to fund Wahhabi Islam; so let’s topple them, seize the oil, sell it cheap on the open market, and use the money to fund our offensives. Iran’s making nuclear weapons to use against a liberal democracy; so let’s lay down a pattern of low-yield nuclear weapons to destroy Tehran without kicking up too much dust, seize Iran’s oil, sell it cheap on the open market, and use the money to fund our offensives. People will resist; so let’s kill them. People will stop resisting; so let’s reward them. I’m sure the specifics are difficult, but it just doesn’t seem that the generalities require subtlety.

Kralizec on September 18, 2006 at 2:45 PM

This country needs to grow a spine and go after the cause, which is the leadership in Iran, both political and religious. I’d say 50 – 75 cruise missiles one evening targeting the crazy guy, his cabinet, staff and family, plus the top 5 crazy mullahs and their families. Then you can start the bombing of facilities.

Then it’s on to Syria. The morons running this country, including Bush and Rice, had better start realizing we are at a point in history where it’s time to kill or be killed.

msplitt on September 18, 2006 at 2:51 PM

fogw,

The Iraqis at the time were pursuing a different track to nuclear weapons than the Iranians are today. The Osirak reactor could easily be used to produce plutonium. The Iranians, on the other hand, are pursuing uranium enrichment, which does not require a reactor at all. The infrastructure is therefore completely different.

LakeRuins,
There aren’t any power transmission lines from Iranian nuclear facilities because they don’t produce power. Only power reactors connected to a power generation station will generate electricity. Iran’s Bushehr reactor is just such a reactor, but it isn’t yet complete. The adjacent turbine house which will, once the reactor is finished, generate power IS complete. All that remains is to finish the reactor, fuel it, get it running and hook the whole thing up to the national grid. Most of the other nuclear facilities in Iran are for research or are part of the fuel enrichment process needed to generate fuel or HEU for weapons. The remainder support the Arak heavy water research reactor being built south of Tehran. Once this reactor is up and running (in about 3-4 years barring any problems) Iran will be able to produce plutonium – provided they are able to get around IAEA safeguards.

The problem with attacking Iran is that you can’t make them unlearn the technology, even if we’re able to destroy all their existing infrastructure which is questionable at best. I personally believe that a comprehensive strike would set their program back more like 5-7 years, but this kind of prediction is hard to make without intimate knowledge of the Iranian program and its facilities.

One alternative is to kill the nuclear scientists themselves. In August 1943 we bombed the residences of the scientists and engineers working on the German V2 rocket program. Several key scientists were killed and the program was delayed. Intelligence is a key issue here – it would be hard to identify and track the hundreds of scientists involved in the nuclear program.

NPP on September 18, 2006 at 2:57 PM

PsyOps, anyone? Or are we too dumb for that?

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on September 18, 2006 at 3:19 PM

Ah, so Ace knows what you look like. The first crack in the wall!

Number 2 on September 18, 2006 at 3:57 PM

Bah….

First off start drilling IMMEDIATLY in Anwar and off the Coasts of Fla, CA, and in the Gulf of Mexico…

Second, make IMMEDIATE HUGE investments in oil shale technology…. we have 4X the entire worlds oil reserve in oil shale in CO…. figure it out and use Tax dollars to do it… then NATIONALIZE it…

Third? Punative air strikes all over Iran… wreck their economy, transportation system, and oil feilds… they can NOT support themselves… bomb every dang factory in the country… bomb em back to the same 14th century they want us back in….

and if they don’t “SUBMIT”… bomb em some more… eventualy they’ll get the hint.

Romeo13 on September 18, 2006 at 4:30 PM

rplat,

“…rouge nation”, indeed. Heh.

Jaibones on September 18, 2006 at 6:45 PM

msplitt,

love the attitude, but don’t kid yourself…Condi Rice is no moron. Consider the possibility that she knows something we don’t know…

Jaibones on September 18, 2006 at 6:47 PM

AP (pbuh),

the pictures of StumpytheFatBoy playing hide-the-sausage with AhmedtheMidgetMan have me wondering:

Venezuela is 96% Roman Catholic; how do you think it is going over for Stumpy Chavez to be Knobbing the Mad Iranian, who is part of the RoP crowd presently calling for the beheading of the Pope?

Not that he was ever very popular there, anyway, but still…

Jaibones on September 18, 2006 at 6:52 PM

Kralizec for President!

Who cares if it “only” sets ‘em back a few years? Hit them again and set them back ANOTHER few years, lather, rinse, repeat.

BGM-109, rockin’ Tehran hit after hit!

Tony737 on September 18, 2006 at 7:35 PM

Why do they have to wait 5 years? Can’t they just buy the bomb tomorrow for North Korea?

lostmyleggins on September 19, 2006 at 12:05 AM

Jaibones

I’ve been hearing people say that for 2 years, that they know something we don’t know. I don’t buy it. I think they’ve gone chicken. Afraid to do what’s right, which is kill 300,000 plus Iranians tonight.

In the 1940’s it took the Manhatten project only 45 months, not even 4 years, to build a nuke. And they had a pencil, a piece of paper and a slide rule to work with. We had to start from scratch and we had help from no one.

Iran has had 18 years, the last 5 working very hard at it. They have new technologies at their disposal, state-of-the art computers, help from North Korea and possibly Russia and probably thousands working on the project.

If Rice knows something, it’s that her idiot boss has already let Iran go nuclear right under his nose, and he did nothing to stop it.

All of us were furious that Clinton/Albright/Carter let North Korea build a bomb. What if we’re not bombing the hell out of Iran because we can’t. It’s too late.

I’ve defended this guy for 5 years, but maybe he really is a moron.

msplitt on September 19, 2006 at 1:05 AM

I think a out-of-the-box approach may be a good idea with Iran.

Slowly ratchet up the pressure until they open their nuke program totally up to the US (NOT the UN)- First, try the EU-3 approach of sanctions (which we all know won’t ever really happen). After playing that game for a few months, go in and take out their air defences, refineries and secure the strait of Hormuz. Blockade them. Like Entelechy said, make ‘em flinch when they hear “woosh” by fling sorties all over Iran without actually bombing anything. If that doesn’t work after a week, then go in with the bombs, starting slowly. Continue escalation untill they say “Uncle”

gmoonster on September 19, 2006 at 1:32 AM

Or since Ace and I went to see “Brokeback Mountain” together.

I think I’ll stick with the Starz 30-second Quickie version (re-enacted by bunnies), thank you.

RD on September 19, 2006 at 9:40 AM

1) What are the sources of our info on Iran’s nuke (weapons) program? The IAEE says there is no real proof–you’ll remember these wild and crazy guys from before the Iraq war. Even a blind pig, right?
2) I see a lot of suggestions here that involve bombing Iran. OK, then what? (I’m a little sensitive on this subject as we didn’t think to ask it when we invaded Iraq. You know, continuous improvement is a good idea all around).
3) The disruption to our oil supply from the mideast would be guaranteed if we bombed Iran. Any thoughts on that issue?

honora on September 19, 2006 at 10:00 AM

We didn’t go into Iraq soon enough (before items were hidden and moved out)
We stopped too soon in Iraq. We didn’t kill enough bad guys up front.
I personally won’t base the safety of my family on whether I can get
cheap oil or not. All my cars and my truck suck gas like crazy, but
I say it is time to bomb these whack jobs right back to the stone age.
Money won’t matter to you if your dead and can’t spend it.
At this point I think we should lay waste to the entire middle east.
We can drill plenty of oil right here.

Gooch on September 19, 2006 at 3:07 PM

We didn’t go into Iraq soon enough (before items were hidden and moved out)
We stopped too soon in Iraq. We didn’t kill enough bad guys up front.
I personally won’t base the safety of my family on whether I can get
cheap oil or not. All my cars and my truck suck gas like crazy, but
I say it is time to bomb these whack jobs right back to the stone age.
Money won’t matter to you if your dead and can’t spend it.
At this point I think we should lay waste to the entire middle east.
We can drill plenty of oil right here.

Gooch on September 19, 2006 at 3:07 PM

So you think we have only 2 choices: be killed or lay waste to the entire middle east.

Well I’ll give you this much–you don’t equivocate!!!

honora on September 19, 2006 at 4:52 PM

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