Somali Islamist cleric: Let’s kill us a Pope

posted at 5:43 pm on September 16, 2006 by Allahpundit

Right on schedule. Assuming he doesn’t offer a groveling apology this week, I figure we’ll see the first embassy go up sometime next Friday afternoon.

What’ll it take to satisfy the ummah? Why, just ask a “moderate” Muslim:

Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, said today’s apology was a “welcome step” but the Pope needed to repudiate the views he quoted to restore relations between Muslims and the Catholic Church.

Dr Bari said: “It’s certainly a welcome step that the Pope recognises the hurt that his speech caused…

He continued: “For the restoration of good ties between Muslims and the Vatican, we feel it’s important that he repudiates the views of the emperor.

“What we want to see is a clear indication that he himself does not in any way share the emperor’s bigoted assessment of the Prophet Mohammed.”

“Good cop” Bari marked the five-year anniversary of 9/11 this week by threatening Britain with two million terrorists unless the “demonization”-slash-criticism of Muslims ceases forthwith. And after all, isn’t there enough religious anger in the world?

The Guardian turns for reaction to “moderate” intellectual Tariq Ramadan, who indulges in a little projection about cultural imperialism:

“He has said it before – that Muslims should tackle the issue of jihad and violence, but the way it was done was a bit clumsy.

“If you follow the whole lecture, though, his message is very worrying. He is saying we have to redefine what Europe is all about … to reduce the past and neglect Islamic participation. Many Islamic values are in the west. All that we knew about Aristotle in the middle ages was coming from Averroes [the 12th-century scholar in Islamic Spain].

“It’s worrying to say that Islam is disconnected from rationality.”

If you want the bullet-point treatment on Ramadan’s “rationality,” read Daniel Pipes. Here’s what Hugh Fitzgerald of Dhimmi Watch had to say about him two years ago:

He wants to see the islamization of Europe. He thinks that Europeans suffer from a “spiritual emptiness” and that they are ripe for wonderful Islam. He has said that “the West is in decline, and the Arab-Islamic world is on the road to renewal” — yet that “renewal,” he believes, will take place when Islam conqueres, through his kind of Da’wa. His Da’wa, of course, is far more cunning, with far more roses than guns, than the Da’wa of Qaradawi, or of Sheikh Tantawi, and of course than the threats of Bin Laden, Zarqawi, et al.

But the goal of Ramadan is the goal of Bin Laden and indeed of all Believers: the victory of dar al-Islam over dar al-Harb, the removal of all obstacles in the dar al-Harb to the spread of Islam, and the subjugation of all non-Muslims — who will be subjugated, as they have always been subjugated over 1350 years of Muslim conquest (with not a single exception anywhere) and, as dhimmis (where not killed or converted outright), subject to a permanent status of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity.

Finally, from Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood — an Islamist organization founded, believe it or not, by Tariq Ramadan’s maternal grandfather — a demand that the Pope apologize again. And this time, no press releases. They want it straight from the horse’s mouth:

Mohammed Bishr, a senior Muslim Brotherhood member in Egypt, said the statement “was not an apology” but a “pretext that the pope was quoting somebody else as saying so and so.”

“We need the pope to admit the big mistake he has committed and then agree on apologizing, because we will not accept others to apologize on his behalf,” Bishr said.

Go have a look at the Brotherhood’s English-language website. It’s wall-to-wall Pope. Make sure you read the comments to this article.

I repeat the question I posed yesterday: what did the Pope intend to achieve by saying what he said? Tucked away in Jon Meacham’s predictable isn’t-there-enough-religious-anger critique for Newsweek lies this passage:

[W]hy did Benedict quote the emperor in the first place? The most likely answer is that, no matter what the Vatican says now, the pope believes in having what the Catholic theologian and papal biographer George Weigel calls “a hard-headed conversation” about the role of faith in the life of the world. “He knew exactly what he was doing,” says Weigel. “He is saying that irrational violence is displeasing to God. The question Benedict is putting on the table is: ‘Does a significant part of Islam have the capacity to be self-critical?’

Precisely. And in choosing to do so in such blunt terms, he’s injected himself into the central cultural conflict of the age. For this week, at least, the papacy is relevant to non-Catholics (and many Catholics, too) in ways it hasn’t been in years. He’s risking life and limb, but it’s a brilliant political maneuver.


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In JPII’s footsteps. Let’s hope he’s as relevant today as JP was on Communism. The message from the Vatican is always goping to be somewhat different from the message from the American President, but it’s great when they’re pushing in the same direction.

The Apologist on September 16, 2006 at 6:23 PM

I still haven’t heard an apology or retraction. His legacy may be greater than John Paul II if he stays the course.

Valiant on September 16, 2006 at 6:34 PM

Dr Bari said: “It’s certainly a welcome step that the Pope recognises the hurt that his speech caused…

Yeah?

What about OUR hurt, “Doctor”?

It’s always about you Muslims, isn’t it?

And btw, about an apology?

This Catholic sez: “No”, “Nada”, “Zilch”, “Zero”.

Put that in your semtex and smoke it.

(Sorry Allahpundit & Co. I am very angry about this.)

Lady Heather on September 16, 2006 at 6:35 PM

Where is tha appology for 9’11….oh… wait, they were too busy celebrating…

I’m sorry, but the Moslem clerics do not have the high ground here… they are NOT speaking out against violence in the name of their religion…. everytime I here a crowd chanting death to America… I get a bit more angry… and Americans tend to get VERY ugly when we finaly get angry…

I’m not Catholic, heck, don’t even consider myself Chritian, but in this I’m rootin for the Pope.

Romeo13 on September 16, 2006 at 6:38 PM

The last two paragraphs say it all.

Sticky Notes on September 16, 2006 at 6:56 PM

Kinda makes one have a hankerin’ for those good old days of the Crusades, where a man could call his enemy his enemy and dispatch him forthwith.

darwin on September 16, 2006 at 7:00 PM

Remember, THAT’S the “religion of peace” talking.

NRA4Freedom on September 16, 2006 at 8:08 PM

Every time they open their filthy mouths they make Benedict’s point for him and prove him right.

“How dare you insult the religion of peace and call us violent? I kill you in the name of allah!”

Tony737 on September 16, 2006 at 8:35 PM

Apologist: the JPII/Communism analogy is apt, I think. If Benedict can get Europeans to take this seriously, it could have a major effect.

Squid Vicious on September 16, 2006 at 8:35 PM

” And in choosing to do so in such blunt terms, he’s injected himself into the central cultural conflict of the age. For this week, at least, the papacy is relevant to non-Catholics (and many Catholics, too) in ways it hasn’t been in years. He’s risking life and limb, but it’s a brilliant political maneuver.”

I would hope a modern day Pope is not purposely risking a war between Christians and Saracens that could place in jeopardy millions of lives just to be part of the argument

Speakup on September 16, 2006 at 9:42 PM

Reminds me of bad children in Wally World with so called ADHD…don’t get thier way, throw a fit. They need to be punished ( or what the left calls ‘time out’)…nahh punished.
LOL @ Tony737…right on point guy!

lsutiger on September 16, 2006 at 9:45 PM

If they really want to get “even” with the Pope why don’t they just draw a cartoon of him? Judging from history that is the most offensive thing anyone could possible do right?

lan astaslem on September 16, 2006 at 10:36 PM

Ian,

They have. Sort of.

After that, I might even put up one of the Mohammedan cartoons that drove them bats**t crazy awhile back.

Lady Heather on September 16, 2006 at 10:47 PM

What’s so peaceful about Islam?

Pablo on September 16, 2006 at 11:40 PM

I would hope a modern day Pope is not purposely risking a war between Christians and Saracens that could place in jeopardy millions of lives just to be part of the argument

If Benedict believes that enough ‘moderate’ Muslims can be reached by his statement, then he probably thinks the risk is worth it. By touching a match to this fuse, he may very well believe that the moderate Muslim street may finally rise and say enough, and cut the Islamists off at the knees. On the other hand, he may have created something beyond his ability to control.

We’ll find out shortly.

nukemhill on September 17, 2006 at 12:43 AM

Where the hell is Opus Dei?

America1st on September 17, 2006 at 1:35 AM

If Benedict believes that enough ‘moderate’ Muslims can be reached by his statement, then he probably thinks the risk is worth it. By touching a match to this fuse, he may very well believe that the moderate Muslim street may finally rise and say enough, and cut the Islamists off at the knees. On the other hand, he may have created something beyond his ability to control.

We’ll find out shortly.

The 3 or 4 moderate Muslims in the Middle East right now probably are calling for tolerance.
I absolutely support the Pope’s right to speak out and what he did say, I agree with.
I think what he wanted to say is that Muhammad the prophet is not the same as Islam the religion.
‘Somewhat’ like saying Vlad the impaler was a protector of Christianity.

Now all that’s left is to convince Muslims that their most revered Islamic Icon should be discounted, peacefully.

Chances are looking pretty good, donchya think?

I wish the Pope all the luck in the world; however after repulsing nine crusades (you can count on their remembering) the Muslims are confident they will withstand anything a modern Pope is likely to put up.

Muslim society is tribal society, honor must be served.

Speakup on September 17, 2006 at 1:50 AM

I didn’t that quote bar thing very well.

Speakup on September 17, 2006 at 1:53 AM

Oh gee… Popes not here…. lets kill a Nun instead….

Sickening….

Romeo13 on September 17, 2006 at 11:06 AM

How smart is the pope? He knew what the reaction would be. He knew how and when the muslims would spew their rhetoric. The Vatican probably knows more than most of us the ‘state of the muslim nation’. Pope Benny knows his papal history and the conflicts with the muslims thru the years. He knew exactly what would happen. And he banked on it.
I dont know how this will play out. It seems the Vatican and the Pope just might have started something HUGE. A worldwide stand for freedom, for freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom for WOMEN. Moderates, muslim or not, will almost have to stand up to be heard, soon.
I’m not Catholic, but I am Christian and I will back ALL of the Christians and ALL FREE people of the world in this matter. This could be BILLIONS of people.
It is time , NOW, to pull the free people of the world together. Together we demand an end to muslim pressures and their fallacies of superiority used to harm others. Stop the islamafascists and their hate and hate crimes, which are condoned by their leaders. Stop the muslims who KILL OVER a CARTOON, but engage in real terrorist activities by beheadings and maiming thousands of INNOCENT PEOPLE.

A leader of one of the largest religions in the world has given the world an opportunity here. Over a billion Christians can chose to use this, to build on this chance. A few billion others just might join in. Think about it, is this the opportunity we hoped for but did not really expect?
Again, I am not Catholic, but I fully believe this is a chance for the truth to be heard ’round the world. As a Christian, I must believe and hope that this is so.

shooter on September 17, 2006 at 11:32 AM

well ya know, this is way out of hand. Now we have a report of a Nun being gunned down. What can be done to these people to make them stop? All options are on the table in my opinion. We dont kill Taliban leaders because they are at a funeral, now a Nun gets gunned down in cold blood.

Get us off of oil dependancy, pull out of these places, and we’ll clean up whats left after it all cancels itself out. Two differant topics really, but still interwoven somewhat.

johnnyU on September 17, 2006 at 11:45 AM

I want to associate myself with Lady Heather’s first comment.
I’m a lapsed Catholic myself, but I agree with her every word.
Don’t back down Your Holiness. Keep the faith, and stand up for what you know is right.

Abigail Adams on September 17, 2006 at 1:05 PM

These 7th century barbarians just proved the Pope’s point. Imams of this evil and inhuman religion are surely and predictably going to stir these ignorami into a frenzy.

I am glad that Pope Benedict XVI is finally taking a stand against the assault of these barbarians.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

– George Santayana

What is sad is that we are doomed to repeat the Crusades because we did not learn from it. Instead we allowed the revisionists to demonize the Crusades to be politically correct and appease these barbarians. Even the Catholic church succumbed to it. But enough is enough!

Our defensive war against Islam’s terrorism and expansionism is a just war.

The New Crusades will defeat this evil!

TrueKatipunero on September 17, 2006 at 5:43 PM

Once again Radical Islam’s Disproportionate Outrage rears it’s ugly head.

LewWaters on September 17, 2006 at 7:02 PM

Short of announcing his conversion to Islm, there is nothing that the Pope can say that will calm the situation down. This is because it is not the Pope who caused it, but radical jihadists who are contriving this for political and religious motives.

Blaise on September 18, 2006 at 11:46 AM