Video: Diebold voting machines’ vulnerability to fraud
posted at 10:56 am on September 14, 2006 by Allahpundit
What do you know. Kerry did win the election!
Click the image to watch.
Blowback
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here we go. it’s starting again. when the GOP keeps control of the house and senate, this will be the dem’s excuse.
can’t we solve this problem by just creating a paper trail? like a little receipt that pops out after you vote? seems like a simple answer to me. but what do i know…
pullingmyhairout on September 14, 2006 at 11:02 AM
How come nobody brings up the Democrats’ misuse of Diebold machines? No evidence? Why should that stop us?
Do you think any recent major U.S. elections were stolen?
No. We know some people are claiming this happened, but we don’t find their evidence convincing.
Well that’s good to know.
In Texas, we use a form of a scantron system. We fill in little bubbles on paper with a pen and it’s fed through a machine that counts the bubbles. You have computer counted votes with a paper trail. Why isn’t this system used everywhere?
can’t we solve this problem by just creating a paper trail? like a little receipt that pops out after you vote? seems like a simple answer to me. but what do i know…
In Palm Beach County, Florida, the dhimmicr@ps ran the elections, approved the ballots and counted them. They ran the show. It worked but, in 2000, here came GWB to ruin their day.
They now feel that doing the vote the “olde fashioned way” just won’t work. Nevermind it worked in the past. The intellectually elite must be modern, spend our money, and change things to suit themselves.
Toss the lot of them out and solve several problems at once.
The hacks are based on analysis of leaked source code. Since it seems inevitable that source code will leak, the best solution might be open-source programming. Not only do you get a lot of eyeballs checking for vulnerabilities, but you lessen the possibility that the code is _intentionally_ stealing votes as well.
So theoretically someone could influence the result of an election. IF they had access to enough voting machines far enough in advance of the election. IF the memory cards were transferred from one machine to another to spread the malicious software. (does this even happen in reality??) IF none of the many operatives that would be required to tamper with multiple machines were caught or could not keep their mouth shut forever. The Princeton video also fails to address how to gain access to voting machines on any other day than election day.
And IF all this could actually have been done in 2004, the question that remains is this:
Did the Bush people steal the election from Kerry or did the Democrats fail to steal enough votes to take the victory from George W. Bush?
Did the Bush people steal the election from Kerry or did the Democrats fail to steal enough votes to take the victory from George W. Bush?
DJ Dubya wins… I didn’t watch the entire thing because it bored the hell out of me after 30 seconds, but I assume they never present any evidence that votes were stolen from Kerry, right? So the conclusion they’re guiding us to, is a false one. They know stupid people will say “the winner got the stolen votes”, but there isn’t any evidence that anyone got stolen votes, much less that it was Bush.
There has not been a voting system, paper, electronic, or even using colored stones, created by a human, that cannot be “compromised.”
I grew up in Chicago where they had the old electromechanical voting machines — with the little levers by the candidate’s names, and the big handle that you threw when you were finished voting. And *STILL* the dead voted! (Always Democratic, amazingly enough).
If the intent is to steal an election, a way will be found to do it, regardless of the method of tabulating. This is as old as humanity.
That’s the way things are. Adults — this leaves out the Democrats — will get over it and work on solutions, not throwing tantrums.
The question is not whether or not an election can be stolen. Of course it can be. The question is WAS an election stolen, in particular the Ohio votes in 2004.
And here is where many Democrats have their “Captain Queeg” moment.
In the 1954 movie, The Caine Mutiny, the captain tries to “scientifically” determine who has stolen the frozen strawberries from the officer’s mess. The obsession with the strawberries by Queeg is identical with the obsession that the Democrats have with Ohio in 2004. It is paranoia, plain and simple.
Their thinking: Because the machines COULD be tampered with, they MUST HAVE been tampered with, otherwise they would have shown that Kerry won and not Bush.
Do they have evidence of tampering? No.
Ah, but they offer those early exit polls that showed Kerry winning. And then, like Queeg obsessed with searching for the strawberries, they say that the exit polls have NEVER BEEN WRONG and therefore this is prima fascia proof that the machines were tampered with. And that it was DIEBOLD THEMSELVES that did it. Scientificly proven!
The fact that the people that did the exit polling for the media explained clearly and convincingly why the early returns did not correspond with the actual election results, and that the final vote tallies were within their margin of error, matters not with them. DIEBOLD morphs into that other corporate villain, HALLIBURTON.
It is the strawberries, and ONLY the strawberries that are all important, after all.
The link you provided shows that the new machines, like paper ballots, like the old electromechanical machines, can be “stuffed” or rigged. SO WHAT!
Want to make it more tamper resistant?
1. Hire Symantec to create anti-virus software, if you’re worried about viruses.
2. PHYSICALLY SECURE the memory cards, the machines, and the voter cards until the ballotting begins.
3. Teach the election judges how to spot tampering, and YES, it can be spotted if people use their eyeballs and their brains.
4. Apply common sense security procedures on the extracted memory cards containing the vote totals.
5. Ruthlessly investigate any tampering with the programming, and require independent audits of the software that Diebold provides.
And so on.
Business and banks have been tracking, moving, and applying money (cash or electronic) to accounts for OVER FORTY YEARS without needing to generate a roll of “printed paper” as the luddite Democrats demand — or suffering major fraud without one for that matter. And we’re gonna let the luddite Democrats tell us that there cannot be electronic AUDIT CONTROLS created to prevent or detect vote tampering? That because the CEO of Diebold exercises his right of free speech and endorses Bush, he is automatically assumed to have ordered the election to be stolen for the Republicans?
That’s what this is all about, after all.
The urge to stuff ballots is as old as the urge to pilfer money from the cash register. And there is nothing to STOP the ballot box stuffers from attempting to subvert any paper trails that come out of the machines. Want to STEAL an election? Toss in some prepared bogus “rolls”, discover the “mismatch” between what the machine says and the rolls of paper say, and the “tie” goes to the paper trail, the BOGUS paper trail — and an election is stolen.
The banking industry has an extremely low fraud rate, and Diebold — WHO MAKES AUTOMATIC TELLER MACHINES that dispense cash and are located on every other street corner — is part of this industry.
The solution is NOT “paper trails” as the luddites demand — which themselves are just ANOTHER way to tamper with an election, as I just showed — but understanding the human factor that tampering WILL be attempted and deal with it accordingly.
This is a MANUFACTURED controversy by people (the Democrats) who can’t get over losing *THREE* elections in a row.
The banking industry has an extremely low fraud rate, and Diebold — WHO MAKES AUTOMATIC TELLER MACHINES that dispense cash and are located on every other street corner — is part of this industry.
Exactly. Boy will banking industry be busy trying to replace all the auto-tellers around the world after this study-NOT.
As we’ve seen with the elections in Mexico, it’s part of the Lefty body politic to question election results.
I’m stunned somebody finally wrote a virus (or so they say).
After hearing about this since the 90s, I’ve yet to see even a proof-of-concept trojan. If somebody actually got it working, do you think they’d keep quiet about it?
No. They wouldn’t.
That’s part of the hacker ethic. Part of the fun of cracking things is seeing how close to getting caught you can get, to tell people just enough to boost your ego. Trust me, somebody would be bragging about this on IRC if it was really happening.
But, let’s say somebody could keep their mouth shut: how in the world would the know if it worked? Maybe more people voted for your candidate, and the hacking was completely unnecessary. Or, the code screwed up, and flipped the result. Or burnt the box with a bad format or build not matching up.
The most likely conspiracy is that, and this is the best part, two different people hack the same machine. One for Donald Duck, and the other for Mickey Mouse. Whoever gets there last wins, right? Or, whoever gets there first. What happens then? A draw?
It’s this kind of thinking you have to go through when you think about breaking a box. I wrote something a while back explaining how you socially engineer these boxes pretty easily. First, you get this vaporware code, but you don’t use it like everybody keeps doing in the doomsday scenario. Here’s how you screw an election.
1. If you know it’s an election you won’t really win, you hack the machines. D. Duck had a bad campaign, but could win with a monumental effort. In an evenly split district, you make sure the machines give M. Mouse over 70% of the votes.
Yeah, Mickey. You’ll see.
2. Wait for the returns. Get the exit polling ready, because that is the most accurate way to gauge the vote – when you use a representative survey, not just people you like, as in 2004.
3. When the results come out, point out that there was no way the fella who won could’ve got that many votes, and you’ve got the polling data to prove it, and even the Rodentia Party has no way of disputing this.
Folks, proof that the other guy is cheating is MUCH better than winning. These close elections just don’t fit the cheating mold; they are just too much like the makeup of the citizenry. I’d be dubious if there was a ridiculously outsized outcome.
Perhaps the Dems are so certain that votes were stolen in Ohio because they know that they had rigged things to go the other way and can’t believe there could have been enough legtimate votes to overcome their ‘special’ votes.
The hacks are based on analysis of leaked source code. Since it seems inevitable that source code will leak, the best solution might be open-source programming. Not only do you get a lot of eyeballs checking for vulnerabilities, but you lessen the possibility that the code is _intentionally_ stealing votes as well.
Hell yes. A thousand times yes.
It is unconscionable that we would entrust our votes to a machine that’s inner workings are a secret. If it’s open source, then eyes on both sites can scour for vulnerabilities and get the fixed.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
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here we go. it’s starting again. when the GOP keeps control of the house and senate, this will be the dem’s excuse.
can’t we solve this problem by just creating a paper trail? like a little receipt that pops out after you vote? seems like a simple answer to me. but what do i know…
pullingmyhairout on September 14, 2006 at 11:02 AM
How come nobody brings up the Democrats’ misuse of Diebold machines? No evidence? Why should that stop us?
Mark V. on September 14, 2006 at 11:06 AM
From their FAQ:
Well that’s good to know.
In Texas, we use a form of a scantron system. We fill in little bubbles on paper with a pen and it’s fed through a machine that counts the bubbles. You have computer counted votes with a paper trail. Why isn’t this system used everywhere?
Hoodlumman on September 14, 2006 at 11:19 AM
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/
We are going in that direction it appears.
honora on September 14, 2006 at 11:42 AM
In Palm Beach County, Florida, the dhimmicr@ps ran the elections, approved the ballots and counted them. They ran the show. It worked but, in 2000, here came GWB to ruin their day.
They now feel that doing the vote the “olde fashioned way” just won’t work. Nevermind it worked in the past. The intellectually elite must be modern, spend our money, and change things to suit themselves.
Toss the lot of them out and solve several problems at once.
Please.
tormod on September 14, 2006 at 12:28 PM
It depends on your county in Texas. When I lived in Harris county,(Houston)we had the electronic voting machines. they were very easy to use.
pullingmyhairout on September 14, 2006 at 12:46 PM
Let’s use Chads. It worked for Florida.
That’s a pretty elaborate operation. I can’t wait till the movie comes out. Perhaps Tom Cruise can get work again.
Kini on September 14, 2006 at 1:44 PM
The hacks are based on analysis of leaked source code. Since it seems inevitable that source code will leak, the best solution might be open-source programming. Not only do you get a lot of eyeballs checking for vulnerabilities, but you lessen the possibility that the code is _intentionally_ stealing votes as well.
Just sayin…
bofh on September 14, 2006 at 2:05 PM
So theoretically someone could influence the result of an election. IF they had access to enough voting machines far enough in advance of the election. IF the memory cards were transferred from one machine to another to spread the malicious software. (does this even happen in reality??) IF none of the many operatives that would be required to tamper with multiple machines were caught or could not keep their mouth shut forever. The Princeton video also fails to address how to gain access to voting machines on any other day than election day.
And IF all this could actually have been done in 2004, the question that remains is this:
Did the Bush people steal the election from Kerry or did the Democrats fail to steal enough votes to take the victory from George W. Bush?
DJ Dubya on September 14, 2006 at 2:18 PM
DJ Dubya wins… I didn’t watch the entire thing because it bored the hell out of me after 30 seconds, but I assume they never present any evidence that votes were stolen from Kerry, right? So the conclusion they’re guiding us to, is a false one. They know stupid people will say “the winner got the stolen votes”, but there isn’t any evidence that anyone got stolen votes, much less that it was Bush.
RightWinged on September 14, 2006 at 2:48 PM
BIG YAWN!
There has not been a voting system, paper, electronic, or even using colored stones, created by a human, that cannot be “compromised.”
I grew up in Chicago where they had the old electromechanical voting machines — with the little levers by the candidate’s names, and the big handle that you threw when you were finished voting. And *STILL* the dead voted! (Always Democratic, amazingly enough).
If the intent is to steal an election, a way will be found to do it, regardless of the method of tabulating. This is as old as humanity.
That’s the way things are. Adults — this leaves out the Democrats — will get over it and work on solutions, not throwing tantrums.
The question is not whether or not an election can be stolen. Of course it can be. The question is WAS an election stolen, in particular the Ohio votes in 2004.
And here is where many Democrats have their “Captain Queeg” moment.
In the 1954 movie, The Caine Mutiny, the captain tries to “scientifically” determine who has stolen the frozen strawberries from the officer’s mess. The obsession with the strawberries by Queeg is identical with the obsession that the Democrats have with Ohio in 2004. It is paranoia, plain and simple.
Their thinking: Because the machines COULD be tampered with, they MUST HAVE been tampered with, otherwise they would have shown that Kerry won and not Bush.
Do they have evidence of tampering? No.
Ah, but they offer those early exit polls that showed Kerry winning. And then, like Queeg obsessed with searching for the strawberries, they say that the exit polls have NEVER BEEN WRONG and therefore this is prima fascia proof that the machines were tampered with. And that it was DIEBOLD THEMSELVES that did it. Scientificly proven!
The fact that the people that did the exit polling for the media explained clearly and convincingly why the early returns did not correspond with the actual election results, and that the final vote tallies were within their margin of error, matters not with them. DIEBOLD morphs into that other corporate villain, HALLIBURTON.
It is the strawberries, and ONLY the strawberries that are all important, after all.
The link you provided shows that the new machines, like paper ballots, like the old electromechanical machines, can be “stuffed” or rigged. SO WHAT!
Want to make it more tamper resistant?
1. Hire Symantec to create anti-virus software, if you’re worried about viruses.
2. PHYSICALLY SECURE the memory cards, the machines, and the voter cards until the ballotting begins.
3. Teach the election judges how to spot tampering, and YES, it can be spotted if people use their eyeballs and their brains.
4. Apply common sense security procedures on the extracted memory cards containing the vote totals.
5. Ruthlessly investigate any tampering with the programming, and require independent audits of the software that Diebold provides.
And so on.
Business and banks have been tracking, moving, and applying money (cash or electronic) to accounts for OVER FORTY YEARS without needing to generate a roll of “printed paper” as the luddite Democrats demand — or suffering major fraud without one for that matter. And we’re gonna let the luddite Democrats tell us that there cannot be electronic AUDIT CONTROLS created to prevent or detect vote tampering? That because the CEO of Diebold exercises his right of free speech and endorses Bush, he is automatically assumed to have ordered the election to be stolen for the Republicans?
That’s what this is all about, after all.
The urge to stuff ballots is as old as the urge to pilfer money from the cash register. And there is nothing to STOP the ballot box stuffers from attempting to subvert any paper trails that come out of the machines. Want to STEAL an election? Toss in some prepared bogus “rolls”, discover the “mismatch” between what the machine says and the rolls of paper say, and the “tie” goes to the paper trail, the BOGUS paper trail — and an election is stolen.
The banking industry has an extremely low fraud rate, and Diebold — WHO MAKES AUTOMATIC TELLER MACHINES that dispense cash and are located on every other street corner — is part of this industry.
The solution is NOT “paper trails” as the luddites demand — which themselves are just ANOTHER way to tamper with an election, as I just showed — but understanding the human factor that tampering WILL be attempted and deal with it accordingly.
This is a MANUFACTURED controversy by people (the Democrats) who can’t get over losing *THREE* elections in a row.
georgej on September 14, 2006 at 3:00 PM
Exactly. Boy will banking industry be busy trying to replace all the auto-tellers around the world after this study-NOT.
As we’ve seen with the elections in Mexico, it’s part of the Lefty body politic to question election results.
NTWR on September 14, 2006 at 3:51 PM
I’m stunned somebody finally wrote a virus (or so they say).
After hearing about this since the 90s, I’ve yet to see even a proof-of-concept trojan. If somebody actually got it working, do you think they’d keep quiet about it?
No. They wouldn’t.
That’s part of the hacker ethic. Part of the fun of cracking things is seeing how close to getting caught you can get, to tell people just enough to boost your ego. Trust me, somebody would be bragging about this on IRC if it was really happening.
But, let’s say somebody could keep their mouth shut: how in the world would the know if it worked? Maybe more people voted for your candidate, and the hacking was completely unnecessary. Or, the code screwed up, and flipped the result. Or burnt the box with a bad format or build not matching up.
The most likely conspiracy is that, and this is the best part, two different people hack the same machine. One for Donald Duck, and the other for Mickey Mouse. Whoever gets there last wins, right? Or, whoever gets there first. What happens then? A draw?
It’s this kind of thinking you have to go through when you think about breaking a box. I wrote something a while back explaining how you socially engineer these boxes pretty easily. First, you get this vaporware code, but you don’t use it like everybody keeps doing in the doomsday scenario. Here’s how you screw an election.
1. If you know it’s an election you won’t really win, you hack the machines. D. Duck had a bad campaign, but could win with a monumental effort. In an evenly split district, you make sure the machines give M. Mouse over 70% of the votes.
Yeah, Mickey. You’ll see.
2. Wait for the returns. Get the exit polling ready, because that is the most accurate way to gauge the vote – when you use a representative survey, not just people you like, as in 2004.
3. When the results come out, point out that there was no way the fella who won could’ve got that many votes, and you’ve got the polling data to prove it, and even the Rodentia Party has no way of disputing this.
Folks, proof that the other guy is cheating is MUCH better than winning. These close elections just don’t fit the cheating mold; they are just too much like the makeup of the citizenry. I’d be dubious if there was a ridiculously outsized outcome.
Still haven’t seen software though.
MacStansbury on September 14, 2006 at 4:24 PM
georgej
Perhaps the Dems are so certain that votes were stolen in Ohio because they know that they had rigged things to go the other way and can’t believe there could have been enough legtimate votes to overcome their ‘special’ votes.
Or they could just be pathetic whiners.
KCSteve on September 14, 2006 at 4:42 PM
Mitigating these threats will require changes to the voting machine’s hardware and software and the adoption of more rigorous election procedures.
Sold! Let’s start with the basics, and demand that legimate ID be shown before anyone gets close to the voting machine. ;o)
DannoJyd on September 14, 2006 at 9:52 PM
Hell yes. A thousand times yes.
It is unconscionable that we would entrust our votes to a machine that’s inner workings are a secret. If it’s open source, then eyes on both sites can scour for vulnerabilities and get the fixed.
Mark Jaquith on September 15, 2006 at 6:07 AM
I prefer the idea of a paper trail. Then everyone can double check the results.
DannoJyd on September 15, 2006 at 10:11 AM