Audio: Popular Mechanics editors debate “Loose Change” morons on 9/11 Update: Video added

posted at 1:40 pm on September 11, 2006 by Allahpundit

The brawl to settle it all.

Bonus audio: Bottom-feeding LC director Dylan Avery laughs at the hijackers’ boxcutters and accuses the father of a passenger on Flight 77 of being in on the conspiracy.

Update (by Bryan): NRO’s James Robbins actually saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon with his own eyes. He also links to a page replete with dozens of eye-witness accounts. Some disagree on this or that, but agree on the main thing–a plane hit the Pentagon.

It’s really tragic that we have to make this banal point over and over again, but then again we’re dealing with people who pretend the strife with Iraq across the entire decade of the 1990s never happened too. So it’s a small thing for them to make up fairy tales about what happened on one single day years ago.

Update: The video’s already up at YouTube, in four parts.

Breaking on Hot Air



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Since then, it’s had at least 10 million viewings and is described by Vanity Fair as “the first internet blockbuster.”

Apparently the folks at Vanity Fair aren’t familiar with Paris Hilton or Pamela Anderson Lee.

This sounds like it should be a lot of fun to listen to.

Pablo on September 11, 2006 at 1:49 PM

Interestingly, on the 9-11-01 CNN Pipeline feed, a reporter just got an eyewitness account (Tim Timmerman) of the crash into the Pentagon. He said the plane was unquestionably a Boeing 757, and it crashed into the Pentagon. Not that I believe the Loose Change clowns at all, but it’s interesting to hear that, even on the very day when nobody knew quite what had happened or who was behind it, the Loose Change theories were debunked.

Fly_in_Ointment on September 11, 2006 at 1:54 PM

I was just about to post on this, Allah–you beat me to it. I have to say that the interview comes off as uneducated twits vs responsible reporters. And the Loose Change guys are definitely the uneducated, as well as aggressively ignorant, twits. Those two must be products of liberal outcome-based education, and their parents should have raised them better.

Bryan on September 11, 2006 at 1:56 PM

I love the “Well, they won’t talk to us, so we’ll pretend none of the evidence they’re responsible for exists.” logic.

Freaking morons.

Pablo on September 11, 2006 at 2:01 PM

Here’s an abstract of the debate.

Popular Mechanics (PM) Guys: Fact, fact, fact, evidence, discussion with experts, fact, fact, fact, fact.

Loose Change (LC) Guys: Nuh-uhh. Is not.

PM Guys: Fact, fact, fact, assertive fact, evidence, fact, fact.

LC Guys: Nuh-uhh. Is not.

PM Guys: Firm fact, fact, discussion with several experts who support fact, fact.

LC Guys: Nuh-uhhh. Is not.

Gottafang on September 11, 2006 at 2:06 PM

It’s the ol’ “I know you are but what am I” bit, eh?

Coronagold on September 11, 2006 at 2:16 PM

However, there are a number of people who buy into these theories. There are a number of so called scholars who go from college campus to campus and talk about how this was all a conspiracy. Sad.

Catie96706 on September 11, 2006 at 2:22 PM

A basic debate fault by the Loose Change fellas: don’t critique the critic. The first words out of Jason Bermas’ mouth was to point out that Popular Mechanics is a representative of “Hearst’s yellow journalism.”

Popular Mechanics.

Yellow journalism?

Yeah. Ok. I stopped reading the transcript, right there.

It’s obvoius that these guys don’t believe their own tripe. They’re simply, obnoxioulsy, picking at an as yet healed wound for the purpose of notoriety.

They’re glory hounds who have nothing else to offer the world, save for a chance to inflame emotions.

The sad part is that they are truly representative of the radical (and now more mainstream) Left.

The sadder part is that we even allow them to steal our attention from more important aspects of life … like, I don’t know, laundry or better oral hygene.

I’m reminded of the Simpsons episode where all of the advertising signs come to life. The only way to defeat them was to ignore them.

I wish we could ignore them; however, there are enough morons out there (some of which teaching at the University of Wisconsin-Madison) who actually think these guys are on to something.

It’s a sad commentary on our nation.

Seriously, if Oliver Stone didn’t make a conspiracy theory movie about 911, did a conspiracy really happen?

yo on September 11, 2006 at 2:23 PM

Jason Bermas, the “researcher” who holds no actual expertise in anything, is particularly obnoxious. He calls anyone who disagrees with him a liar and treats any anomaly as evidence of intent and cover-up, which makes it obvious he hasn’t spent a second around actual scientific investigation as it happens. I have. Science just doesn’t work the way he thinks it does. He’s a lousy researcher and a fraud.

Bryan on September 11, 2006 at 2:24 PM

Wow. I can see how conspiracy enthusiasts would have a lot to work with listening to Democracynow radio.

The US is the root of all evil to these guys.

Hoodlumman on September 11, 2006 at 2:26 PM

The US is the root of all evil to these guys.

Hoodlumman on September 11, 2006 at 2:26 PM

Indeed. I would be interested to see the Loose Change fellas, or anyone insanely critical of the US, go into Iran, or Syria and perform their unique brand of investigations against those governments.

yo on September 11, 2006 at 2:36 PM

The nutbag that comes on the radio late at night fresh from his ABDUCTION ON A UFO, has millions of listeners, too. People are so dumb you could intentionally announce that you want to fool them by MAKING UP A RELIGION. You could further say, that the tenents of your “religion” would be that man was descended from SPACE ALIENS and that we’re all waitin’ for the MOTHER SHIP to come and take us away. You could actually announce in ADVANCE that you just “made it all up” and years later you could still fill the Scientology Celebrity Center with idiots that believe the lies that L. Ron Hubbard himself, didn’t even believe.

Soothsayer on September 11, 2006 at 2:40 PM

Hey Sooth …,

and the difference between L. Ron Hubbard and Mohammed is … what?

yo on September 11, 2006 at 2:58 PM

I think the “Loose Change Nuts” had been doing some drinking games before the interviews. I won’t waste my time listening to these idiots.

d1carter on September 11, 2006 at 3:29 PM

I was amazed by the polite behavior of the PM men. That little twit telling the PM guy sitting right next to him that he was a liar… Talk about restraint and good manners…

Babs on September 11, 2006 at 4:01 PM

and the difference between L. Ron Hubbard and Mohammed is … what?

That it’s OK to draw a cartoon of L. Ron Hubbard….

Dave Shay on September 11, 2006 at 4:10 PM

Just a couple of quick observations from a guy who has spent his entire life as an aerospace engineer.

First, they said that the “nosecone” of the aircraft (we call it a “radome” is made of carbon. Close, but no cigar (sorry for the Clinton reference). The radome of the aircraft is made of fiberglass or Kevlar. Carbon fiber is not transparent to radar, which would make the aircraft’s weather radar not work at all. Seems like a minor point, but it shows a basic lack of research.

Second, they imply that the construction materials of the B757 are some type of industry secret. I would be very happy to forward them a PDF file of the structural repair manual for the 757 or any other aircraft for that matter. Although these manuals are not available to anyone, they are certainly available to anyone who is in the aviation industry. The SRM (as we call it) will provide them with the exact material used in (almost) every single part of the aircraft. The exceptions being the engines (which aren’t made by Boeing) and a very few other parts made by people other than Boeing.

As a final observation, the weight of an aircraft is absolutely crucial to the designers. Studies have shown that every pound shaved off of the weight of an aircraft will save tens of thousands of dollars per year in fuel costs to the airline. That means that the aircraft is designed to be strong and light. The fuselage of an aircraft is much like an eggshell in that although it is very strong in the ways it needs to be (hold an egg in your palm and try to crush it with equal pressure around it, it’s almost impossible), when an aircraft fuselage experiences unnatural loads (i.e. a crash) it virtually disintigrates (again, like an egg). Dense parts like the landing gear are a different story, as was noted by the Popular Mechanics guys.

It’s like these bozo college punks didn’t even attempt to talk to any experts.

Big surprise, eh?


mojotrain on September 11, 2006 at 4:59 PM

Smart. Tough. Liberals.

I can’t believe they turned to Cynthia McKinney as a source… Oh, wait.


birkel on September 11, 2006 at 5:11 PM

Those last three videos were the worst Mac vs. PC ads I’ve ever seen.

dorkafork on September 11, 2006 at 5:26 PM


Allahpundit on September 11, 2006 at 5:28 PM

Back in 2002, an M.D. I know pointed me to Carol Valentine’s whackjob website, which may have come out even earlier than these Loose Change nuts site. Not so I could have a good laugh but because he *believed it* and wanted me to produce his cable access TV show. Seriously. I was so ticked off at what I read there I spent about a week crafting a reply. I looked up Material Safety Data Sheets re: jet fuel, how they put out fires (foam & water), analyzed the photos, etc. and ended up with a, if I do say so myself, pretty devastating response.

Then I realized it was no use sending it to her, because, face it, the woman – like these Truthers – is a complete nut job and it’s useless to try to talk to them. The only thing to do is try to reach the people who haven’t been infected yet.

Laura on September 11, 2006 at 6:02 PM

The dude who put those videos up on YouTube deletes every comment that is negative towards the idiots of Loose Change no matter what you say. If you look at the author of the videos, he is a nutjob himself and may even be one of those two dumbasses of Loose Change. Either way, they looked stupid with the debate with the name calling and references to someone hearing explosions from another building. So funny.

zerodamage on September 11, 2006 at 6:11 PM

I just watched all four. Can I get some sort of prize?
That might be worse than smoking crack. Yeesh what a bunch of screwballs those two LC kids are.

Rich on September 11, 2006 at 6:28 PM

That little twit telling the PM guy sitting right next to him that he was a liar… Talk about restraint and good manners…

That is the difference between two mature professionals and two punk-ass wingnuts.

Lehuster on September 11, 2006 at 6:31 PM

The CIA had an office in building seven. The CIA is known for its unwavering Bush-adoration. I’d say it’s the CIA. They’ve converted me.

Martin on September 11, 2006 at 6:36 PM

Martin, you almost made me spew my drink out of my nose with that one….

mojotrain on September 11, 2006 at 6:58 PM

Oh, we SO need more video of debates with these petulant children. Bermis or whatever his name is, nearing has a temper tantrum each time one of the “grown ups” calls him on his BS. It’s hilarious!

And what kind of stupid boring ass program is this?? A boring droning host, peddling idiocy… If it wasn’t for the PM guys kickin’ ass, I’d be asleep long before the end of part I.

tickleddragon on September 11, 2006 at 6:59 PM

Hey, can’t someone just give these kids a spanking and send them to their rooms?

tickleddragon on September 11, 2006 at 7:14 PM

This is what you get with the science education kids get nowadays, I guess.

Hey, wait a minute! I’m a science teacher!

Never mind.

Bob's Kid on September 11, 2006 at 7:26 PM

All I can ever say about the conspiracy retards is the same phrase: Bukkaked with stupid. (With thanks to Maddox.)

Oh yeah, and that kind of stupid should cause cancer.

bamapachyderm on September 11, 2006 at 7:28 PM

It was Guy Fawke!! He set them up the bomb!

daveintexas on September 11, 2006 at 7:54 PM

I just finished watching the first part. The Popular Mechanics guys were impressive; their pleasant demeanor was very classy.

I was pretty amused near the end when Dylan Avery was talking and the video identified him at the bottom of the screen as “David Dunbar, Popular Mechanics”. (It correctly identified him a bit later, though.)

sandberg on September 11, 2006 at 8:01 PM

I really tried to watch them all. Honest. But from the opening comments of the LC clueless, the writing was on the wall. By the time the first 30 seconds of the second vid had played, I’d had enough. Inspector Clouseau and Mr. Magoo could’ve taken these twits apart.

raz0r on September 11, 2006 at 8:20 PM

Watched all four. It was hard but someone had to do it.
My first thought is that they must be poster children for the NEA.
They are also sterling examples for supporting Planned Parenthood.
It is obvious that these two twits were brought up by a village because they haven’t learned any manners or science.
Being a Mechanical Engineer, I find it hard to fathom the stupidity of the Loose Change twits.

Wil on September 11, 2006 at 10:39 PM

A great video about conspiracy theories courtesy of “Penn and Teller’s Bullsh*t.” They show some footage of 9-11 and show how stupid the conspiracy nutjobs are. Cursing is common on this show btw.

zerodamage on September 11, 2006 at 11:47 PM

Bryan nailed it – aggressively ignorant, so much so that I couldn’t continue to watch. Those boys haven’t a clue. The sad part is that this doesn’t seem to even phase them.

Patton on September 12, 2006 at 12:09 AM

Not surprisingly, the biggest douchebags on the planet presented themselves as such:

“I’m not calling anyone a liar. I’m calling you a liar”


But I do have to honestly say that the PM guys could have done a better job. I understand thorough debunking takes time, but put yourselves in the shoes of first, someone who already believes this crap, and then someone who is on the fence, while acknowledging the psychology that causes most people to have a desire to believe these conspiracy theories. While in the debate the Loose Change children came off like arrogant little a-holes, the PM guys don’t really put any giant nail in any coffin.

For putting the conspiracy theories to rest…
Specifically for the Pentagon, see this:

I haven’t had the opportunity to watch screw loose change or review the viewers guide yet (bookmarked a while ago, and just realized it today), they appear to be much more indepth than the PM guys were able to be in that short ammount of time:

Praise be to AllahPundit for linking me to those a while back.

RightWinged on September 12, 2006 at 12:47 AM

Bermas looked and sounded a lot like a Middle Eastern Muslim.
When he called the Popular Mechanics expert a liar the PM guy should have cold cocked him. Then told him Cheney did it.

there it is on September 12, 2006 at 7:59 AM

The links are broken. Youtube apparently no longer is allowing embedded videos. I tried this on both browsers.

Please provide valid Youtube links.

pabarge on September 12, 2006 at 10:37 AM

From the videos’ YouTube pages…

The first televised debate between the 911 truth movement and Popular Mechanics propagandists.

Conservative Nazis coming from sites like are not welcome in the comments section, because they’re all neanderthals with monosyllabic vocabularies. You’re damn right I’m biased, because I’m anti-murder, anti-torture, and anti-racism. Your time as a majority are finished. Welcome to the 21st century, douchebags.

Yes, it’s so nice to see the Ideology of Tolerance at work.

fusionaddict on September 12, 2006 at 12:42 PM

I never thought I would say this, but go democracy now. That interview is awesome.

One Angry Christian on September 12, 2006 at 12:44 PM

They blocked embedded video. Cute eh? Control that message you little fascist liberals…. How else can you spread your nonsense?

Surely my comments there will be axed.

DWB on September 12, 2006 at 1:58 PM

I will just quote one phrase that excatly describes theses liberal morons – “There hasn’t been & never will be intelligent life on this planet”

Starblazer on September 12, 2006 at 3:33 PM

Why would anyone doubt two snot-nosed college kids? Sober maturity wins out in the end, even in a far-left venue. Thank you Popular Mechanics!

RobCon on September 12, 2006 at 6:20 PM