Houston: Healthcare for illegals cost almost $100 million in 2005

posted at 10:20 pm on June 17, 2006 by Bryan

Harris County spends big bucks on people who have never paid a single dime into its health care funds and most likely never will:

The Harris County Hospital District’s unreimbursed costs of caring for illegal immigrants approached $100 million last year, a 77 percent increase in three years.

“The costs are increasing because the population of undocumented immigrants is increasing and the cost of health care is rising,” said hospital district spokesman Bryan McLeod.

The unreimbursed costs rose from $55 million in 2002 to $97 million in 2005, the hospital district said in a report released Friday. Last year’s figure represented 13 percent of the district’s $760 million operating budget.

Does anybody want to keep arguing that illegals are a net gain for the US?

Commissioner Steve Radack, who requested the report on the district’s costs of treating undocumented immigrants, said county residents are shouldering a burden created by the federal government.

The federal government doesn’t prevent illegal immigration, but hardly reimburses local counties where the immigrants most frequently settle and use public health care facilities, he said.

“The federal government allows people to come here illegally,” Radack said. “Because of that the cost shouldn’t fall on the local taxpayer.”

Yes and no. The feds do a horrible job of enforcing the border at the border, but once inside cities–like Houston–often become sanctuaries for illegals. In Houston’s case, it’s not officially a “sanctuary city” where law enforcement are forbidden by ordinance from asking about your immigration status if they suspect you might be here illegally, but blogHouston notes that Houston does have a general order in place that amounts to the same thing.

So cities have themselves to blame for much of the illegal immigration mess. The blame in fact can be spread across the entire elite caste of the country: The federal government for not enforcing the border, big business for depending on illegal labor, and cities like Houston that have made themselves sanctuaries for illegals. And as it goes with most issues, the little guy who pays his taxes and lives by the law ends up paying for it all, one way or another.


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Why complaining?

America let those illegal immigrants walk through the so-called “borders” as if they are going to a walk-in clinic, or to a country buffet.

And now we’re crying?

Sheesh!

CatholicConservative on June 17, 2006 at 10:25 PM

Lets see, a 100 million dollar cost versus a 25 dollar mow of the lawn….mmmmm…. I guess it is up to the taxpayers to riase up this time!!

gary on June 17, 2006 at 10:26 PM

100 millions is nothing compare to the potential damage to the social security system if Bush has it his way!

It pains me to declare Bush as public enemy No.1.

Nothing he can do no to repair the damage he had done in the neglect of our borders and the audacity to propose the Amnesty Bill.

He almost dragged the GOP with him down the drain, and that will assure a Demo victory in 2006!

I am glad Bilbray won, aginst Bush wish.

I am glad the House rebel against Bush. It is the only right thing to do.

I am glad the conservatives have the spine to rebel. Tomorrow will be a better day. The sun will come out….because the conservatives are now brave and forthright.

Thanks, Congress, for saving our A$$!

easy87us on June 17, 2006 at 10:42 PM

But they pick our crops!

And mow our lawns!

And clean our houses!

And make our tacos & burgers!

And…

Suck our health care and welfare system dry, steal our jobs, import drugs and gangs, terrorize our streets, rape our children, clog our prisons, all the while demanding their “rights”…

Oh wait, I forgot, Mexico is our “friend.”

speed647 on June 17, 2006 at 11:19 PM

Yes, I will argue it is a net economic gain. If you add in the cost savings in terms of the use if ILLEGAL labor for roofing, bricking, drywall, landscaping, maid service, restaurant work, farm abor, etc. in the Houston area alone, trust me it would add up to far more than $100 millionI would expect housing to cost at least 10 – 15% more without the illegal worker.

Even given that, it is still a terrible problem that must be addressed with tougher eforcement, more deportation and severe punishment of the employers. But make no mstake; addressing it will result in a lot of things becoming significantly more expensive.

Mike O on June 17, 2006 at 11:44 PM

I would love to see Houston with all the publicity it can muster send Vicente Fox an invoice.

.

GT on June 17, 2006 at 11:47 PM

Mike O, there are ways to deal with the problem without granting them amnesty and without draining us dry.

Bush should go to Hong Kong. There are now 200,000 filipinos working in Hong Kong as temporary workers. They have not drained any resources from the Hong Kong Government. 200,000 is about 3% of the population of Hong Kong. Imported workers are also working in Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore in large number.

easy87us on June 18, 2006 at 12:18 AM

This just adds to the cost of illegal immigration that found during our 9 month study. We weren’t able to drill down to that level of detail at each county in Texas. However, I am not suprised. Read our article at http://www.texastowncar.com and comment if you think our numbers aren’t correct.

texast on June 18, 2006 at 12:39 AM

Mike O:
I’m afraid your analysis is flawed. You cannot logically compare the economic benefit of the work done by illegal aliens to the cost of their medical care. The wages paid to illegals are shouldered by those who choose to use their services. But the cost of the medical care to illegals that medical facilities are forced to provide is borne by the taxpayers; it is just another tax.
The federal government cannot force the hospitals to bear the cost of medical care to illegals except by coercion; that is, the feds threaten to deny Medicare and/or Medicaid reimbursement unless the local facilities provide free care. The Harris County Hospital District can choose to opt out of providing such care, but as usual, it comes down to dollars and cents. As Rush Limbaugh often says: Follow the money trail. If the taxpayers of Harris County, and many other counties similarly situated, say enough of this madness, then the practice will stop regardless of the economic consequences. Further, state and county police agencies can utilize their arrest and detention powers when illegals surface for medical care. However, we don’t see that happening either as a direct result of political decisions made by city and county governing bodies. If the liberal politicians really wanted to end the problem, they could and they would.
The last paragraph of Bryan’s analysis says it all. There is plenty of blame to pass around but ultimately, the taxpayers are forced to shoulder the financial burden.

csjd on June 18, 2006 at 12:58 AM

Mexico has represented their illegals in court actions against American citzens from what I’ve heard so let’s turn the tables and sue the Mexican government for the monies spent on them. ;o)

DannoJyd on June 18, 2006 at 1:11 AM

Lawsuits take time without a guaranteed outcome. Let’s declare war on them as they have us. I have more faith in our military than I do in our courts and in Congress.

RolandHall on June 18, 2006 at 3:38 AM

Maybe the cost of housing would increase 10-15% without the illegals, but the health, education and social costs would offset that increase. I would be more than happy to pay more for a new home if I wasn’t paying for their healthcare and education and coming soon, social security benefits.

bopbottle on June 18, 2006 at 4:54 AM

Que carajo quieres WHAT THE F*CK DO YOU WANT?
Fuera de aqui GET OUT OF HERE
Enhoramala GOOD RIDDANCE

MaiDee on June 18, 2006 at 8:59 AM

Mexico is a third world trash country, exporting its social and economic problems to the U.S. Unfortunately, most of our elected officials in BOTH parties are supporting, condoning and aiding the invasion. Seems that they value illegal alien votes more than ours.

The ONLY way to fix this is to vote ALL THE INCUMBENTS out of office except for people like Rep. Tom Tancredo R- Co., who is the staunchest defender of America and its ideals, today. The rest of them are craven vote-seekers and corporate appeasers, and group that includes President George Bush.

For those who would defend the President, think about all those unfunded mandates for illegal aliens that come from the federal government like health care, education, etc. These are not “state problems” — they are federal problems — and the federal government is not only ignoring them, but “aiding and abetting.”

If the federal government withheld funding to punish sanctuary cities like Houston, Phoenix, Los Angeles, New York, etc., the problem would quickly resolve itself. So, while I abhor places that provide sanctuary to law-breaking illegal aliens, our President Senate, and countless others support that.

I abhor even more than illegal aliens and sanctuary cities, government that aids and abets.

ForYourEdification on June 18, 2006 at 9:11 AM

I would love to vote the incumbents out of office. Unfortunately most people apparently don’t care as much as many of us bloggers do. DeWine, one of my RINO’s, easily defeated his primary opponent recently. What is with the citizens of this country when they keep sending these spineless charlatans back to D.C. to play their games? It’s depressing.

right as rain man on June 18, 2006 at 9:21 AM

What we need is a conservative GOP action group, like liberals MoveOn.org.

We should target only a couple high power RINO only and unseat them. When the top is gone, the base will shake. People like DeWine is not the top bass, Specter and McCain are.

I believe we can have the Senate back by just unseated Specter, Warner, McCain, and Hagel. The rest of the RINOs( 8 of them, I think) are just followers.

We have nothing to worry in the House.

easy87us on June 18, 2006 at 10:34 AM

csjd, as I sit in Harris county, I have a question for you; name one major home bulder that does not subcontract out roofing, bricking, sheet rock and the like. They sub-contract it out to one legal Hispanic, who then drives up with a truck load of illegals to do the work. They always win the sub-contracts because they are far cheaper. It makes probably a 10-15% difference in the cost of housing throughout the Southwest (where I’ve lived for 33 years) and- in Houston alone- I can assure you the savings to homebuyers in general is substantial. Ditto to all people who use hotels outside the 4 star class.

Does this make it right and the way it should be? Of course not! But, as far as the businessman is concerned, it’s what makes him competitive with others. And until a large percentage of us demand to start accepting the higher personal price for these items to assure the products are ‘untouched by illegal hands’, that’s the way it will be. We can rant and rave here all day, but convincing the general public to take a big, clear, very visible hit in their pocketbook is another issue.

easy87us, I really don’t think moveon.org is a good example of successful campaigning strategy, do you?

Mike O on June 18, 2006 at 10:50 AM

They (Illegals) cost cities like Houston $100 Million for health care alone, then multiply that by dozens of cities, you have an economic colapse waiting to happen.
And all the while the same Illegals are sending $50 BILLION American dollars back to Mexico. Every year! The only ones to profit from that act is the money transfer stations, most with direct phone lines to Mexican banks.
They send home, to Mexico, the money that should be used to pay their own debts, but you and I pay that for them.
$50 BILLION is the second largest income source for the entire country of Mexico, second only to narcotics. All of their oil is THIRD!
You really think Fox will ever help us? Hell no, he’s printing more maps to sneak accross more “remittance senders”.

shooter on June 18, 2006 at 11:01 AM

“If you add in the cost savings in terms of the use if ILLEGAL labor for roofing, bricking, drywall, landscaping, maid service, restaurant work, farm abor, etc. in the Houston area alone, trust me it would add up to far more than $100 millionI would expect housing to cost at least 10 – 15% more without the illegal worker”
————-

Do you realize you have described the entire blue-collar job market?

Yep, I guess it would cost more to have a blue-collar class i.e. a middle class!

Unlike Mexico, which has an upper class, a technoclass (teacher/doctor/engineer) and the barefoot class that is currently colonizing us.

Does it ‘cost’ more to be pre-invasion America than to be colonial Mexico?

Henry Ford revolutionized industry when he started paying his workers enough to buy their own product. Before that, cars were custom built for a few rich customers. By paying $5 a day, Ford created a base of customers, who had incentives to build their own cars. Car ownership multiplied other industries.

But why be America when we can become like Mexico, where everyone can afford a maid except of course, the maids?

Have the cost savings ‘trickled down’ to us as ‘price savings’? Employers are paying a lot lot less to their illegal employees but I suggest the obscene profit factor is the biggest result.

I am sure that revenues are up at the IRS which taxes profits of business. That created the ‘booming economy’ syndrome.

I am also certain that employment is up, as the displaced blue collar class is being forced from two jobs in a household (husband and wife working), to two jobs per person households as their job choices dwindle and illegals depress wages in that sector.

There is no net-sum gain. The blip of cheap labor is being cushoned by people at the bottom becoming bottom feeders and eating their assets to survive. When a steady state is reached, we will be Mexico, as the blue collar stabilizes into the Mexican peon class.

I was outraged to hear Cheney this week on talk radio say
‘the jobs Americans can’t fill”.

The spin list grows:
1. the jobs Americans won’t do (Bush)
2. the jobs Americans don’t do (Bush)
3. the jobs Americans don’t want (Mehlman of RNC)
3. the jobs Americans can’t fill (Cheney)

entagor on June 18, 2006 at 11:04 AM

A 10% tax on every dollar going back to Mexico would provide $5 billion dollars to help states pay for some of the healthcare illegals get.

bopbottle on June 18, 2006 at 11:10 AM

Yes, bopbottle, but the president wont let us do that, not Bush, president FOX said no.

shooter on June 18, 2006 at 11:14 AM

Mike O –
I am aware of the practices of certain builders and other employers. When I lived in Houston, I owned two houses and there is a reasonable chance that illegal alien labor was used, although I can’t say for sure one way or another. However, we can agree on three things: 1) the practice is illegal and should stopped regardless of the increase in prices; 2) drywall, framing, and other unskilled building trades are not jobs Americans will not do; and 3) the increase is the cost of housing would be offset by a decrease in the cost of medical care that is passed on to the rest of us. Hospitals would not be required to consistently raise their rates if the subsidization of illegal aliens was eliminated. Those increases are passed along directly to you. However, the broader issue that must be addressed is whether we as taxpayers and voters are going to continue to allow politicians and elected officials to encourage the influx of illegal aliens by declaring the city/county a “sanctuary” and refusing to enforce immigration laws by arresting and detaining illegal aliens. Until we develop some political backbone, illegals will continue to storm our borders and you are going to pay more for health care and the cost of government subsidies.

csjd on June 18, 2006 at 12:16 PM

I haven’t noticed vegetables being cheap at the stores thanks to all the illegal pickers. Vidalia onions are about $1 each, and tomatoes are unpurchasable. Nearly $4 a pound, and they’re not even good ones. How much exactly would this stuff COST if legals did the work? Lettuce at $1.50 a head, $2.25 for Romaine, jeez. Already too damned high as it is. I can’t see any benefit to illegals doing the work if the stuff is already too high to buy. And the nonexistent “savings” certainly don’t offset the taxpayer expenditures to cover these people’s costs on society.

clyde on June 18, 2006 at 12:42 PM

Here’s an article by Thomas Sowell from May 23rd where he states only 24% of illegals work in agriculture. So it’s a myth that people keep reciting that “they do jobs no one else would work.”
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2006/05/23/198423.html

Besides being jobs that the middle income earners work, these are also jobs that most young people start out with. What happens to these jobs when they are all taken if our representatives ignore our cries and allow over 20 million illegals in? I’m afraid we’ll see a reverse in roles and Middle America becomes the new poor.

moonsbreath on June 18, 2006 at 1:02 PM

Up until last year, I was a Houstonian, born and raised. i feel it’s time to chime in. While it’s nice in theory to deny illegals medical care, can you imagine how difficult that is in reality?? Imagine EVERY emergency patient coming in the doors at Ben Taub and Texas Children’s and imagine the nurses and support staff being forced to verify the legal status of those emergency patients!! I realize that medical care is a huge drain on the taxpayer (trust me, i lived it through my harris county hospital taxes). It is a very difficult problem and one that I don’t have an answer to, only that if it were SOMEONE IN MY FAMILY who died while waiting for a nurse or hospital administrator to verify my legal status before administering care, there’d be hell to pay.

I think a tax on remittance to Mexico is an excellent idea.

Another problem I see is that we are not willing to PAY for the increased costs of goods and services that we would incur should we not have illegal workers. BUT! Are we so SURE that these illegals are being paid unfair wages? I am certain that many are NOT. I would wager that most illegals (housekeepers and yardmen) are making roughly 10$ and hour in cash, paying no federal taxes at all. I don’t call that exploitation – I call that a really good wage.

Where the subcontractors (framers, painters, mainly) save money by hiring illegals is that they don’t pay as much workers comp and payroll taxes and they can pass the savings on to the customer.

Until we are willing to pay more for our goods and services (which is why we purchase goods from China at Walmart instead of all that nifty made in american stuff from the mom and pop dime store) then we will have to live with the fact that illegals live and work among us. It might not be fair, but what in life really is???

And I disagree with the fact that our taxes wouldn’t go up if Harris County didn’t have to pay for all the illegals. That’s just a fraction of why health care is so expensive. (Think lawsuit abuse as another really good reason…but that’s another topic entirely).

ta ta!
xoxo

pullingmyhairout on June 18, 2006 at 1:03 PM

This is a situation that requires out-of-box thinking. Who would stand to loose the most and how do you make it happen?
Vincente Fox, and by staging a referendum to dissolve Mexico into equal states that vote to become part of the US. This would solve ALL of the Mexican and several of the US problems.

Another option is to build a wall with blockhouses every 400 yards, populated by criminals from every state in the union, given rifles and the orders, “Shoot to Kill”. Other problems become manageable then. Hmmmmm…come to think of it…

tormod on June 18, 2006 at 1:05 PM

Wow entagor. Great post. Good posts all!

RD on June 18, 2006 at 1:10 PM

Another thing – all those construction jobs such as drywall, painting, framing, roofing…I’d LOVE it if when my son is old enough, he gets a job like that. (and we are from an very overeducated family…) Learn a trade when he’s a teen, start his own business after college. Those are great jobs to have, good honest jobs that make our kids hard workers. It makes them get their hands dirty and they learn the value of the dollar and just how hard it is to earn. Jobs Americans won’t do? Rubbish. Of course they will if they are hungry enough.

pullingmyhairout on June 18, 2006 at 1:22 PM

Speed 67 had a start on the summary of the “benefits” of illelegal aliens:

Suck our health care and welfare system dry, steal our jobs, import drugs and gangs, terrorize our streets, rape our children, clog our prisons, all the while demanding their “rights”…

Oh wait, I forgot, Mexico is our “friend.”

speed647 on June 17, 2006 at 11:19 PM

Perhaps a few more items could be added to that list. It is my understanding, at a minimum, 50% of the gangs in LA are illegal aliens. Illegal aliens committ crimes, anything from murder to abandoning child support payments, and then disappear into Mexico – with the implicit aid and abetting by the Mexican government.

It is anyone’s guess what diseases the illegal aliens are bringing over our borders – or what they could bring over if the “Bird Flu” is able to be transmitted from human to human. Of course we pay all the cost for their treatment – at no cost to them – so they can suck Billions of dollars out of our economy to send to Mexico. “Give us your sick” takes on new meaning when spoken in Spanish.

Illegal aliens contribute to the absurd notion of “Aztlan” and disrespect for United States territorial integrity. Many illegal aliens are not “immigrants” but infiltrators from a forein power with territorial amibitions on our southern states. If we are not careful we may have a 2nd civil war instigated by illegal aliens and their decendants, abetted by the likes of those in San Francisco and the “Dixie Chicks” who don’t care what nation they belong to. To these people “patriot” is a dirty word.

The American people suffer all of this for what – so the rich, with Republican support (Bush)can increase their profits, and feed the Democrats aspirations for increased power? At some point we all must drop the “multicultralism” and “diversity” mantras and identify as American citizens – regardless of race, creed, color, national origin, or religion – and advocate the best interests of the United States.

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 1:22 PM

We are also getting to the point where there are now jobs even the illegals won’t do. Washington state is having a hard time getting their crops picked because they have all moved over to the construction industry where they can make twice the money hammering nails and hanging drywall without those nagging back injuries from the hard labor of picking fruit. And you wonder why tomatoes are four bucks a pound?

frreal on June 18, 2006 at 1:41 PM

The solution to “jobs that no one wants” is automation. American farmers are the most effecient in the world. The reason automation has not progressed further is because of illegal aliens – and the desire for short term profits at any cost (ours of course) by the rich with Republican support.

Add another “benefit” of the illegal alien – providing reason to limit agricultural technological development and growth. As costs rise the system will take over and provide new opportunity for technology. Take a look at a modern combine – one guess where that came from.

The cost of the Illegal Alien, for us now and those of us that follow, far outweigh any short term increase in the price of produce.

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 1:49 PM

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 1:49 PM said:
“…and the desire for short term profits at any cost (ours of course) by the rich with Republican support.”

Omegaram, just WHO are the RICH that you are referring to? Would that be the individual construction company owners who just want to make a nice living? Since WHEN are drywall, roofers and painters REALLY REALLY RICH??? What is RICH to you? And do you really think that none of these people are DEMOCRATS? give me a very big break.

Rich with Republican support? What about HOLLYWOOD ACTORS??? Aren’t they RICH WITH DEMOCRAT SUPPORT????

Yikes.

pullingmyhairout on June 18, 2006 at 2:20 PM

“Rich” in this context refers to anyone, person, corporation, or organization that uses the illegal alien to perform any task or work.

Some of those are construction contractors that use illegal alien to increase profit and increase the amount of jobs they accept. Since NOW AND WHEN THEY STARTED are drywall, roofers and painters “rich” by those terms – sacrificing the interests of the nation to increase their profit.

Of course some of these people are Democrats, many of them are, but the issue still is the same – there are those, defined in this context as “rich”, that increase their income by violating the laws of the United States and to the deteriment of the American ciitizen.

Solution: Have jail terms and severe financial fines for anyone, including contractors, especially contractors, that use illegal aliens for labor. If they want to bid on a job use workers that are here legally and pay their taxes, and comply with laws that include workman’s compensation insurance and contribution to social security witholding.

Politicians are not the issue here, illegal aliens are.

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 2:42 PM

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 2:42 PM said:

Solution: Have jail terms and severe financial fines for anyone, including contractors, especially contractors, that use illegal aliens for labor. If they want to bid on a job use workers that are here legally and pay their taxes, and comply with laws that include workman’s compensation insurance and contribution to social security witholding.

I totally agree with your solution, however – I don’t agree with your use of the word “rich with republican support.” It is true that by hiring illegals, one is increasing one’s own wealth, if only by possibly not paying enough taxes and/or increasing profit margin, but weather that is with “republican support” i’d contest that. I think it is with the general public’s complacency that illegals are here breaking the law (democrats and republicans alike). We just don’t give a shit enough to REALLY bite the bullet and do what’s necessary to stop the flow and hiring of illegal aliens. we like our cheap prices, period. sorry for the bluntness, but it’s true.

pullingmyhairout on June 18, 2006 at 2:52 PM

Yes “pullingmyhairout” you are correct that illegal aliens are used with much public complacency, both Democrat and Republican. Yes, many enjoy reduced prices and don’t care enough about the United States, our nation, to respect it’s laws if money is involved.

For of those who do care about he United States, who do care about the nation and it’s future, much public support for the illegal alien is a very very very frustrating experience. It is through websites such as “Hot Air” that we can at least vent and perhaps increase grassroot support for change.

You are also correct that perhaps the term “republican support” is not correct when referring to the issue of illegal aliens. The House Republicans are firmly against illegal immigration and I am very satisfied with many of their postions and clear thinking. Bush, however, is whom I was thinking of and he really does seem to be promoting wealthy interests at the expense of the rest of us – and this includes his support for illegal aliens and amnesty.

I ask then, “pullingmyahirout” (very appropriate name in this discussion by the way), what is a good term to use for supporters of illegal migration and amnesty – such as Bush? (RINO perhaps?)

One thing I do is boycott as much as possible any firm, product, service or person that uses the illegal alien. I also make a deliberate effort to not buy any product labeled from Mexico. I pay attention to the issue, but as a law abiding citizen that respects the laws of the United States, it seems that ther is not much else one can do beyond contact with elected representatives and voting for change.

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 3:13 PM

I know this sounds repetitive, but the only power we really have is protest, letters, email and the phone (voting when the time comes, but by then…….). Please use whatever method you have at your disposal to let your senators and representatives know EXACTLY how you feel. We can’t let up now.

darwin on June 18, 2006 at 4:32 PM

While I totally admire your boycott, it’s MUCH harder for me to do that where I live – I live in South Texas and there are MANY Hispanics who are here legally – families who have lived here for generations, born and raised. It’s very hard for me to generalize that just because one doesn’t speak good English and/or one LOOKS like a migrant that one is illegal and therefore boycott restaurants and small businesses. Most businesses here are either OWNED by hispanics or hispanics WORK there. I am not prejudiced at all towards hispanics, in fact, most that I know work VERY hard and call themselves AMERICANS. They contribute to our lives in countless ways. I can only assume (and hope) that businesses do what they can to ensure that they are hiring legal workers. Forcing businesses to pay a fine is o.k. in theory, except if the illegal alien provides false documentation, what kind of recourse does the business owner have if he/she is accused of hiring illegal aliens? How is he/she going to KNOW if documentation is false? SS Cards and Drivers Licences are easy to forge. I think that most business owners WANT to follow the law and do what they can to comply. I would hope that the ones who are breaking the law on purpose are punished for it. so far, that hasn’t happened.

as for what to call a politician who believes in amnesty – let’s call them what they are – global panderers who care more about political correctness than what is right and correct.

BTW, it looks like the immigration bill is dead. which is fine with me. the senate version was a disaster.

pullingmyhairout on June 18, 2006 at 4:41 PM

omegaram, just about everything you’ve stated (diseases, crime, stealing jobs, changing culture, etc. has been said about every group of immgrants that have come to this country for centuries. The only part not the same; the illegal part. That’s what’s important and needs to be stopped.

Here’s one of the problems; the people who make decisions in this country- including the lawmakers- are quite accustomed to illegals working for them and see no problem. Wish all you want about passing laws to go after the ‘nanny’ economy; it’s ain’t gonna happen, any more than lawyers are going to vote to set their pay based on actual work done, as opposed to a percentage. Both are great ideas, but won’t be enacted without major legislative turnover (including a lot of otherwise conservative officials).

Mike O on June 18, 2006 at 4:46 PM

entagor, and what do you for a living? Me, I’m a computer hack, making about 40% of what I did at one time. In that, I’m better off than a lot of friends who have not found matching work for years. Why? Excessive LEGAL H-1B usage, followed by out-sourcing. Purely a business decision by the industry that has short-term benefit, but long-term pain. I’m sure you can make a ‘spin list’ here, too.

But why isn’t there so much rage going on about that? Because we haven’t had Indians marching in our streets, waving Indian flags, demanding the government deal with them in Hindi.

Come on, people; ‘fess up. It was the marches that set all of this off. Admit it and we can move on to rationally trying to address the legitimate problems here.

Mike O on June 18, 2006 at 5:00 PM

Come on, people; ‘fess up. It was the marches that set all of this off.

I have to agree. I think that if the unemployment rate weren’t so low, Congress and the Bush Administration would be more inclined to begin hunting down and booting the illegals out because of the additional public pressure. I seriously doubt either Branch will do much about the border with Mexico (or Canada) until some enterprising terrorist comes through the border and succeeds in an attack.

.

GT on June 18, 2006 at 5:31 PM

Exercise #1: Describe how the “economy” doesn’t benefit from illegal immigration.

Employer hires legal American worker, pays him $100, government gets $28 in taxes.

Employer switches to hiring illegals under the table, pays him the same lowered wage of $100, government gets $0, Worker sends $28 dollars to relatives in home country.

Who’s economy benefits?
* Worker? No he’s unemployed now.
* Government? No, the tax base is now in foreign lands through remittances.
* Corrupt businesses? Yes, they get all the benefit and pass along nothing.

So when someone says the “economy” needs illegals, remember just who they are supporting: modern day slave traders.

bucktowndusty on June 18, 2006 at 9:17 PM

GT: Illegal aliens has been an issue with me for many years – and I could see much of the current concerns coming a long time ago. I remember in the 1986 amnesty that it was a futile gesture then – more of the same to follow – and it surely did.

Employment figures are not the only consideration – if the laws were enforced the lowest paid Americans and legal residents would see their wages and benefits rise without government assistance. Illegal aliens not only take jobs but also depress the wages of the Americans that need more income the most. It would also be more profitable to work than recieve government aid or welfare.

Mike O: I am not against LEGAL immigration and believe that it is in our best interest. Legal immigration provides control over the issues I have mentioned, including disease and crime. Illegal aliens are not screened and are a serious risk in so many ways – including members of dangerous gangs and those with communicable diseases that have not been treated. No wonder our health insurance is b ecoming so unaffordable when we are treating half of Mexico for free. (TB anyone?)

Pullingmyhairout: Illegal aliens come in all sizes, shapes, races and countries. It happens that at the moment over 95% come from Mexico. I have objection with illegal aliens no matter where they come from.

Being a citizen of the United States is about loyalty, about values, and has nothing to do with race, creed, national origin, or religion.

I do not boycott Hispanic business, I boycott only those business that hire illegal aliens, and products made in Mexico. Mexico, in my opinion, is a foreign power with territorial aspirations on our southwestern states. Mexico, in my opinion, is only interested in positive US relations to facilitate unrestricted currency payments from the US to Mexican nationals, and any other economic benefit they can derive in any way possible. I believe Mexico is not a friend but a weak enemy that would take by force large parts of United States territory if they had the means.

I boycott any business that employs illegal aliens from any country.

omegaram on June 18, 2006 at 10:10 PM

Send the bill to Vicente Fox and Mexico.

Kokonut on June 18, 2006 at 11:07 PM

Pullingmyhairout…

How would you feel about loosing your loved one because they were so far down the waiting list, due to illegal aliens using emergency services as normal care, that they died waiting for the services you could pay for?

About 4 years ago, in california, in the town I grew up in, I waited for 5 hours to get my broken arm seen too in an emergency room… as a Retired Vet… while folks with coughs, and who knows what, were seen before me… and most of those were of an “ethnic” persusion….

Two emergency rooms in my county in California have had to close their doors… because of the Illegals not paying…

How would you feel if your loved one died, because they couldn’t get care… because of someone who shouldn’t have been there in the first place?

Romeo13 on June 18, 2006 at 11:10 PM

Warning: politically incorrect quip ahead:

A friend of mine from Houston said, “We’re carrying more brown loafers than Discount Shoe Warehouse.”

lol.

wordwarp on June 19, 2006 at 1:19 AM

Come on, people; ‘fess up. It was the marches that set all of this off. Admit it and we can move on to rationally trying to address the legitimate problems here.

Mike O on June 18, 2006 at 5:00 PM
—–
I was in the same field. Dried up and the jobs left are at a fraction of salary.

I can give you a list of dead fields here in SE Michigan. One relative working as a designer at the big three was pinked when Daimler bought Chrysler. He was able to join a contracting group. He is now in the same desk, with the same phone number as a contractor at (estimated by me) 30 per cent less). Other designers I know said projects started coming back from Asia, with tweeks only to be applied by US designers. Job market dead.

We are very familiar with the special visas for tech. Mehlman, leader of the RNC, in his radio interview at instapundit, mentioned ‘tech’ and ‘carpentry’ as two jobs americans ‘don’t want’. The truth is, the special visa guys are a lot more malleable, controllable, than ornery Americans and sought at the big three. The bosses play games to qualify these guys for visas.

Another relative had a remodeling business. Historic homes, additions. Now driving a school bus. But there is lots of building going on, by illegal subcontractors. You can’t out bid someone paying under counter. No workman’s comp there.

Michigan is the only state that taxes payroll. The more employees you have, the higher the state tax. Michigan also taxes 95 percent of health benefit costs payed by employers. So under the table employers clean up.

I want to state – Americans are not demanding greedy, excessive wages. They who live above the table have to earn more to meet the legal requirements of this society. Auto insurance, homeowners insurance, property tax, health insurance costs. They can’t leave the kids home with a 15 year old sibling babysitter. It is illegal here. If something happens and the state finds out, you lose your kids. You have to have an adult babysitter. You can’t just run a daycare. You have to meet myriad legal requirements, toilet facilities, room sizes. Someone I know got in trouble because they had their teen aged kid help out in a home child care by changing a baby’s diaper. Illegal!

It wasn’t the marches that set it all off. It was the Immigration Bill coming out of nowhere with the slap in the face that somehow we needed this bill, and needed it fast. I have seen used car salesmen who wished they could fast talk that fast.

I cannot recall ever being so insulted, shocked and outraged I did watching the shell game being played out on me, with the jobs we will-do/won’t-do spinning, the good people/ bad american worker comparisons, and the we pass it if we have to break your bones to get it threats emanating from the Executive office, and the DINO RINOs of the two partys

The marches were a godsend though, because they revealed the underside of the unassimilated, the rejection of America the nation, with the claim of right of ownership to america, the continent.

At the moment of truth, faced with the blatant in your face rejection of America the Nation by the demonstrators, the supporters of the Immigration Bill, led by the Bush White House, chose sides against the American people, and with the protestors.

That is why I, a Reagan conservative, do not feel bad when I hear people criticize the White House stand on illegals because the White House desrves our contempt, and our fear. They do not stand with blue collar america, they stand with the illegals and Vincente Fox. The contempt for those who block their path is obvious. To me, it is an act of war on America the Nation. what else do you call interfering with the Border Patrol so they cannot stop an invasion?

As for medical care. Three years ago I had a serious accident, The ER doctor charged $150 for service only. Last year I had two major ER admissions. In both cases, the ER doctors charged $685 each to look at me, ask a few questions, and refer or admit me. This is not a litigation fee. This is a way to recoup from the non-payers. And when my insurance got screwed up, I was hit with collection. Collection works on legals, not illegals. Now, they can take your house for medical. So when those ‘good people’ take their many children to ER for sore throats, their $150 charge becomes my $685 charge, and I will pay up or the hospital takes my house.

I am finished with the whole shell game. I want my country back. I want the illegals out. I want every G-D- one of those blinking politicians who intentionally created this black mail situation hung out to dry.

I love America. I love Americans. You can’t take my country. Remember the Alamo!

entagor on June 19, 2006 at 3:24 AM

Omegaram,
Good mornin’! My point was – how do you KNOW if a company hires illegals?? Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the manager, “do you hire illegals?” Why, No, of course not! DUH. I’d boycott too if I knew WHO THEY WERE!! What am I supposed to do, drop my friends if they have a “questionable nanny” or a “suspicious yardman?” Please remember that I live in south texas.

dude, i’m on your side. i’m just saying that it’s REALLY hard to figure out who’s illegal down here.

Romeo13, I think I answered your question in an earlier post. here it is:
I said: It is a very difficult problem and one that I don’t have an answer to, only that if it were SOMEONE IN MY FAMILY who died while waiting for a nurse or hospital administrator to verify my legal status before administering care, there’d be hell to pay.

There. I’d be plenty ticked off too. And, FYI, I’ve waited at Texas Children’s with a child with a broken arm for many hours while children with chicken pox went ahead of us. They use the ER as a clinic – this is more of a lack of health care coverage issue.

The only thing I’m saying is that enforcement is much more difficult than it appears, especially during the chaos of an emergency situation. Visiting the ER is already chaotic as it is. I can’t imagine what the wait would be if they had to verify everyone’s legal status first. so, ya’ll don’t get mad at me this morning. i’m just being practical.

pullingmyhairout on June 19, 2006 at 9:00 AM

entagor,
i feel your pain. did you know that houston is the fourth largest city in the country and there are only TWO (count ‘em) county health care facilities to serve the indigent population?? It’s more than just illegals using the ER’s, it’s the uninsured Americans as well. Houston also has a dismal vaccination rate for its children.

Big cities would be much better off financially if they opened up more health clinics to serve the non-emergency cases and to give vaccinations to Americans without health insurance.

just my two cents…

pullingmyhairout on June 19, 2006 at 9:06 AM

next time a Democrap starts crying about Healthcare for the Poor, and unemployment.. just point them to the nearest Emergency room. Then have them explain how they can support Illegals with their Communist friends, when the poor could use that money.

havok on June 19, 2006 at 9:44 AM

The social security clause to grant illegals social security benefits and their families outside of USA was negotiated with Mexico while Collen Powell was Secretary of State.

Bush was making friend with Clintons.

Specter and McCain thought that they were running GOP….

Now you have seen the Devil’s child, the Amnesty Bill.

I still have no idea who talked Bush into taking the Demo’s idea and turned it into the biggest GOP nightmare?

We all see it coming. I am glad Tancredo et al took up the last line of defense and blocked the bill. Becasue Specter really wants it to pass. He worked for the Democrats, if you don’t know.

Now we finally know that Democrats really do have an extended branch inside of GOP.

And we know where Mr. Powell stands.

One more warning. If you are for a new conservative party, I believe this idea is the latest Demos ploy to destroy the GOP. Think hard before you jump onto their bandwagon.

easy87us on June 19, 2006 at 10:35 AM

How’s this campaign strategy:

“Money to Provide Free College Tuition for all Legal Residents Spent on Illegals’ Healthcare!”

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on June 19, 2006 at 10:58 AM

“pullingmyhairout” – Identification of Companies that employ illegal aliens.

You might want to visit wehirealiens.com – list of companies that they believe use illegal aliens and discourse on their proof. Also they have some companies listed that they believe have a firm policy of not hiring illegal aliens.

Other “prospects” for illegal alien commercial activity (some may seem painfully obvious) people selling everything from Mexican Food (Tamales and such), fruits, roses, holiday items in the parking lots (such as Walmart or the Grocery store) or on the side of the road. Day labor center gathering areas that have predominatly foreign nationals who speak limited or no English I believe also have a high probability of illegal alien commercial activity.

You do have a good point “pullingmyhairout” – if we who wish to protest the presence of the illegal alien and wish to boycott we need more information on who the employers, companies, organizations are that hire them. The web site wehirealiens.com is a start but this discourse has identified a clear need for identification of employers that hire illegal aliens.

Those who hire illegal aliens for childcare (nannys, housekeeper) to improve their lifestyle while burdening us with costs such as health care, social security, no taxes, etc. can be reported but I am not sure of the mechanism. the wehirealiens.com has a link. Social pressure may be just as effective but most of those people would not respond to any pressure except hitting them where their values really lie – in their pocketbook. They have to pay taxes and social security contribution and all of a sudden things change.

I do not believe that any business should be subject to boycott because of race, religion, or national origin. Their lack of support for the United States, the laws we live by, is the issue that makes them deserve this attention. How to identify these businesses, to determine who to deliberately direct our commerce to in a reasonable fashion is an issue that perhaps Michelle would take up in a vent.

omegaram on June 19, 2006 at 11:22 AM

Just out of curiosity, has anyone figured out just exactly how much it cost us per US citizen to provide social services and health care to illegal immigrants? I’m seriously considering sending Vicente Fox an invoice.

.

GT on June 19, 2006 at 12:13 PM

The game that it is too hard for employers to id illegals is a big big lie. Bush’s recent dog-and-pony raided a company that had been advised by IRS for years of thousands of duplicate SSN’s in its payroll withholdings. Notice how the Bush people let the illegals go, to steal from us again.

The social security number check is available to employers with a phone call. Dunkin Donuts is using that right now. It doesnt catch everyone, but it catches duplicate SSNs, and SSN’s of the dead or disabled. It also catches those over the age of 106 or under the age of 5 who seem to be applying for a job. I know about this from persons who program such info for the government. They have to ‘smooth’ their data to eliminate the large numbers of infants and ancients strangely in the work force.

There is no excuse not to do the SSN check now, today. The only reason to avoid it is the intention to hire illegals. An employer could still hire someone with a duplicate or compromised SSN conditionally. If they check out, we can go arrest and deport the others using that number.
- – -
regarding
” It’s more than just illegals using the ER’s, it’s the uninsured Americans as well…
Big cities would be much better off financially if they opened up more health clinics to serve the non-emergency cases and to give vaccinations to Americans without health insurance”
- – -
my reply:
There is a health clinic for illegals, the ER. They get that even if cities create national health clinics. And who sorts the line at the public clinic? Everyone in Mexico will be in that line.

On the other hand, if you set up a free low income public clinic system that required future patients to enroll and be certified for eligibility in advance by requiring fingerprints, DNA samples, and thorough citizenship checks starting with the instant SSN verification by phone, you could have a mini Blue Cross for poor Americans only.

They could also put a lien on any and all assets and bank accounts of applicants, to be frozen if they lie about citizenship on their application to the free clinic.

Yep, I like that. The honest poor citizen would get his charity clinic. Of course, the illegals will keep on using the ER. Hey, they have CAT scans and all the high tech tests there, why go to el cheapo clinic? That would be for citizens!

entagor on June 19, 2006 at 12:50 PM

Great post Bryan, and comments all.

I attended a Republican ‘meet the candidates’ picnic Saturday in the hills of eastern Tennessee. Illegal immigration was RED HOT for all of the state and national candidates. The plot thickens …

dman on June 19, 2006 at 3:35 PM

An inequity:
The conjoined twin’s parents from Fargo ND are in hock for Thousands for their operation.
The conjoined twins separated in California, whose parents are Mexicans, here on an OVERSTAYED visa, get the operation for free.
Each time I feel sorry for my (illegal) Mexican neighbors,walking to work in all kinds of weather,12 people stuffed in a 3 bedroom home,no AC in the summer,why I just remind myself that my 20 dollar health insurance copay went up to– paying the first 2,000 dollars,per person in my household,each year. It went up overnite because those 12 people next door and 20 million like them get all their health care, FOR FREE.They just go to ER or Urgentcare clinics, no questions asked. This includes coughs and colds, kids braces,( a girl at my school is on her THIRD pair)major transplants—-and yes, separating conjoined twins. Am I glad those Mexican kids are OK? Of course. Am I glad I have to pay for it while losing my own benefits, which I worked HARD for? Hell, no! Neither are most people. How much are we expected to take? We pay for the whole world, and our own gov’t treats us like we are the bad guys,”racists and vigilantes” we are called,as they pick our pockets to pay for Vicente’s millions.Who do we vote for? Who cares about us?

lizzee on June 19, 2006 at 5:05 PM

I can understand your frustration “lizzee”.Mexicans (over 95% of the illegal aliens in the US) are not charged or are sent bills that are never paid – but if we need care be sure to bring payment or the bill will be turned over to collection agencies that will take your home and/or force you into bankruptcy without hesitation.

The only ones that the illegal alien benefits is the illegal alien, Mexico, the “rich” (those in the United States that hire and benefit from the illegal alien) with Republican support (Bush clan, RINO?), and the Democrats who have visions of increased power. The rest of us suffer, as does the nation and it’s intersts.

omegaram on June 19, 2006 at 8:39 PM