Peggy Noonan: We need a third party

posted at 1:24 am on June 1, 2006 by Allahpundit

Glenn will link it first thing in the morning so I might as well chip in now.

She thinks the big divide isn’t between left and right but between the public and its cloddish, imperious elected officials. So she’s calling for a new party, one that believes in small government, strong borders, and effective Homeland Security. In other words, the Republican Party that George Bush pretends to belong to, not the one to which he actually does.

I wonder if anyone I know would support such an agenda.

It won’t work, though. Partisan fear and loathing will kill it in its crib because even people like me who agree with her will vote strategically. When push comes to shove, Kos repulses me more than Bill Frist or Dennis Hastert does. So I won’t gamble on a Reform candidate, especially one who’s likely to draw votes from the GOP nominee, lest it tip the election to the nutroots. That happened once before, as I recall, and we ended up with a Clinton in office; conservatives won’t let history repeat itself.

But it’s a fine idea. Ask me again if and when the Democrats clean out their gutters.

Update: I said “first thing in the morning.” I should have said “mid-morning.” Apologies.


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It could happen, but the far left could split off from the center left, driving the Democrats right and into an electable position. They could win some red states without the radical ballast holding them down.

see-dubya on June 1, 2006 at 1:47 AM

As you say, she’s basically describing a platonic Republican Party, one that (roughly, almost) exists even now in false rhetorical form. Therefore it’s theoretically possible to get this “third party” candidate in the ’08 GOP primaries. The problem is, as she says, there’s no such animal on the horizon. But that’s a problem either way.

Alex K on June 1, 2006 at 1:49 AM

She has very convincing points.

Corporate servitude…err…illegal immigration, public indoctrination…err…public education, and the blatant criminality that Congress is displaying are almost enough reasons to dump the Republican Party. Almost.

That the House is considering a power grab by trying to make themselves immune from judicial, and executive investigation is almost enough to force conservatives to the Constitution Party or Libertarians. I wouldn’t be surprised if polls force the house to hide an amendment in whatever form of immigration compromise they work out with the Senate to prevent searches of their offices.

Corporate servitude, I mean illegal immigration, has many conservatives spitting mad.

The continuing disaster that is public education doesn’t even receive lip service from politicians anymore. What ever happened to Bush’s support of vouchers?

I genuinely agree with the Constitution Party’s stand on the pertinent issues, however I will cede that it is doubtful any support for them would help conservative causes. Losing the House, Senate, and Presidency to the liberal-elites and secularists would be beyond disastrous.

Rode Werk on June 1, 2006 at 1:54 AM

So I won’t gamble on a Reform candidate, especially one who’s likely to draw votes from the GOP nominee, lest it tip the election to the nutroots. That happened once before, as I recall, and we ended up with a Clinton in office; conservatives won’t let history repeat itself.

Perhaps history does need to repeat itself….lest it tip the election to yet another (Jeb) Bush.

I say let’s lose one for The Gipper.

The Ugly American on June 1, 2006 at 2:29 AM

Forget the Constitution Party. I checked out the website for my state and all the members were nuts. Conservative type nuts, but nuts all the same. No thanks, no chance for victory there and I don’t care to belong to the Blueboy party either.

ScottG on June 1, 2006 at 2:31 AM

Let’s bring back the Whig Party ; )

The Ugly American on June 1, 2006 at 2:52 AM

I’m not really a Christian, but to Ms. Noonan I have to say… AMEN! Unfortunately, I also agree with Allah. What can be done? We need reform, but can’t afford to risk fighting for it. It is really frustrating to have your party in power and not get the changes you want.

Kevin M on June 1, 2006 at 3:37 AM

The ORIGINAL Third Party in the USA was the Anti-Masonic Party. It’s main purpose was to oppose Freemasonry. Talk about a narrow agenda! The Anti-Masonic party actually had a national convention and ran their own candidate who came in third running against Andrew Jackson in 1832. By 1834 the Anti-Masonic Pary had fallen apart. No wonder. It’s kind of tough to keep folks interested in the one strange obsession about the Freemasons.

pjcomix on June 1, 2006 at 7:29 AM

We have to fight back. I am voting for Sherrod Brown in Ohio. Period. What is the point of electing Republicans that act more like liberals? Might as well have a liberal, at least I will not feel as if I’m being lied to. Then the GOP can get the message: Be REAL conservatives!!! Once this election cycle kicks out all the RINO’s the GOP will get the message. Then we can get a Tancredo or a Poe in the primaries to run. No pro-illegal GOP candidate will make it out of the primaries. This is our chance so what if we lose the Senate? The White House and the House can still be held while getting our message across and without a third party. If that fails I say we resurrect George Washington.

Theworldisnotenough on June 1, 2006 at 8:04 AM

Theworldisnotenough,
Your message-sending strategy is a dangerous one, particularly when dealing with six-year senate terms and concomitant unintended consequences. Among those unintended consequences: Sherrod Brown will have lots of “earned media” and will have serious clout in ’08, for both the presidential and US House elections. Please don’t go there!

Aunt B on June 1, 2006 at 8:24 AM

If you buy into the lie that there is only two parties you are being duped. The Republicans treat their true base like the democrats treat the blacks. They know that you wouldn’t dare vote for a democrat because of your principles. They know you are patriotic and take your right to vote seriously. If you are a conservative and you vote for some moderate RINO, you are making a mistake. You are empowering the enemy. It took us Jimmy Carter to get Reagan. RINOs must be sacrificed. Do vote on election day. Vote your conscious, and let the RINOs fall. Vote 3rd party and let the GOP see where your vote went. If things stay the same, we will lose.

robman27 on June 1, 2006 at 8:26 AM

Perot came close enough to wake them up the last time and we got the Contract with America, which brought the full weight of the MSM down on Newt and killed it!

Well the MSM is dead now and, his foolish stance re: the seizure of William Jefferson’s documents not withstanding, we need Newt back again. Gingrich/Tancredo ‘08

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on June 1, 2006 at 8:55 AM

Yea, but the Republican party can be reformed back to the Reagan days if it is punished in the ’06 mid-term by conservatives staying home (except for extremely conservative candidates). A little exposure of the loony Dems in charge of one House- where they’ll have actually have to propose something- might do the conservative cause a great deal of good for the more critical ’08 election.

Mike O on June 1, 2006 at 9:14 AM

http://www.countyoursheep.com/

Who knows, maybe we DO need to shake out the dead wood.
The democratic party has been falling apart for 15-20 years now. The republican party has been mastisizing in to a dangerous copy of the dems.

Question is, is it better to allow the dead wood to keep on growing and killing America, or to take a chance at excizing it and possibly dieing on the operating table?
America has withstood a lot in the last 230 years. I think she can survive the operation. And if I am wrong, and America were to fall… well, better a quick death then a lingering death. At least with a quick Death America may rise from the ashes stronger then before. Similer thing happened with the civil war. America was changed, but in many ways a better country.

Wyrd on June 1, 2006 at 9:25 AM

I haven’t heard much on immigration from Gingrich. I like him, but every now and then he dances off into the sunset on some crazy tangent. He drives some people nutts, but he is smart and tricky. He’s a tough one to stump in a debate.

Shmo on June 1, 2006 at 9:30 AM

Last year, after Hurricane Katrina, I thought something might start to take hold at the local level. People actually paying attention to what local officials are wasting money on instead of preparing for whatever potential disasters a town should be prepared for.

Now I think the change will be much slower than I’d hoped. If local b.s. can be debunked at the speed of the grand debunking of Jessie MacB., there’s hope for people having local elected officials who are small gov’t and security types. That could definitely grow into a national party over time.

MamaAJ on June 1, 2006 at 9:35 AM

Dread Pirate Roberts,

Your buddy Newt and his divorce lawyers spend more time with Hillary Rodman Clinton than Bill does; no thanks!

All this requires, IMAO, is a little planning and memory. Remember who the Scum RINOs are, and lets get some conservatives running against them in their next primary.

Obviously, I’m no great strategist but why on earth couldn’t a real conservative beat John F. Kennedy-McCain in an Arizona primary? As for limp wristed weenies like Chafee, Graham, Voinowitch, Hazel, DeWhine, Lugie, etc., there is no reason why these sissy Marys belong in the GOP. Bounce ‘em.

Jaibones on June 1, 2006 at 9:58 AM

This is not the right time for a new party.

GOP is still able to turn around. 66% of the GOP Senate and over 90% of the GOP congressmen are conservatives. We just have to weed them RINO out.

First thing first. Let us make Bush the biggest lame duck in history. Let us form a coalition around the border defense and defeat of the amnesty bill. We can use this as a platform to take over the GOP again. We must have a strong leader in the House, one who can speak with one voice for the conservatives. The House will scrutinize the president on every bill and every act he does to prevent further damages to the GOP. From now on, Bush must inform our leader before he propose anything, or we shall screw him. “Read my lips, no new trick”.

This is top urgent that we must kick Bush’s amnesty bill to the moon! We must cut out the path to citizenship crap. we must eliminate any back pay clause of social security benefits or tax breaks for the illegals. WE MUST PROTECT OUR SOCIAL SECURITY SYSTEM! We must remove the consultaion with Mexico crap. WE MUST STOP THESE INSULTS!

In next 4 years we must focus on removing those RINOS one by one through the primary.

If we cannot salvage the party, then we must form a new party.

But not now…definitely.

Easy87us

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 10:13 AM

Well ppls,
Again we find ourselves at a fork in the middle of the road.
Oh which way do I go ! oh which way do I go !..

alyce on June 1, 2006 at 10:18 AM

Alyce said
“Well ppls,
Again we find ourselves at a fork in the middle of the road.
Oh which way do I go ! oh which way do I go !..”

Down the rabbit hole maybe???
(Sorry, could not resist :) )
I agree with Easy. If we were to organize and march on DC to make out point heard maybe something would change. Or only 15 of us would show up and we would know we are marginalized.

Wyrd on June 1, 2006 at 10:29 AM

The Whigs? Perhaps you should read up on them first before you wish their return.

thegreatsatan on June 1, 2006 at 10:37 AM

First post.

I’m very conflicted on this myself. My first and second inclination is to either vote for some other conservative candidate or not vote at all. If that brings the Dems to power, so be it. I have to vote for what I think is right.

Then the good point is made that the House is still and perhaps the only bastion of conservatism and despite the lunacy in the Senate, it is imperative to keep the House in Republicans’ hands. I have faith that my Representative will not vote for amnesty so I can comfortably vote for him and thus vote to keep the Republican majority in the House. I do have a senator to vote for, and so far Santorum has come out against amnesty.

Immigration is the big topic for me at the moment. Yes, I am pissed about overspending but as EVERYONE seems to be doing it and the liklihood of that changing is far more remote than influencing the immigration debate, that’s on my back burner. Still, I would like to see some fiscally conservative congressmen for a change.

I wrote and called all of my current and potential representatives (the latter being some potential Presidential candidates) and said in no uncertain terms that any vote for amnesty would ensure my wife and myself would NEVER vote for them in any way. That’s about all I can do at this time.

I DO feel though, that such declarations of “Hold your nose and keep voting for Republicans, because the alternative is so much worse”, while having its measure of validity, are not much more than low-ball scare tactics coming from my own ‘side’. Why should I continue to vote for people that don’t represent me in any way? I mean, does anyone actually believe that hordes of voters that vote for these people but “don’t feel good about it” will matter at all to these legislators? Since they won’t get the message any other way, perhaps the only way left is to let them lose. Sure, we’d have to deal with more liberal dark ages, but the pendulum has to swing the other way sometimes.

It’s a quandry, and not one I like being in. But in the end I think I still have to vote for what I think is right and let everything sort itself out. I can always move to ‘Straya.

Darksean on June 1, 2006 at 10:41 AM

Place to start (whether you’re a R or a D) is the crazy redistricting that has made all but a handful of districts essentially unassailable by the out of party office. This of course makes the incumbent fat, dumb and happy. And unaccountable.

honora on June 1, 2006 at 10:58 AM

In recent years, many of Peggy’s columns have become too mystical, metaphysical, and “Catholic” for my tastes. Recently, however, she has come on strong concerning the immigration issue. Indeed, she nailed things recently when she opined that El Presidente Arbusto had developed a contempt for his base to the extent he not longer cared what it thought. While I believe that this may be overstated, I do believe that Arbusto and his advisers believe the base is stupid and must be educated (manipulated) into “enlightenment,” especially on immigration.

The immigration bill shows how absolutely disconnected a substantial portion of the Republican Senators are from the concerns of the average American. The trash polls trumpeted by White House advisors concerning the alleged need to pass a “comprehensive” immigration bill to save Republican fortunes shows they are truly now in an alternative universe.

Any third party will challenge the Republican Party from the right. Given the out-of-control spending of congress, the contempt towards the law by Hastert, and the betrayal of Americans on immigration by Arbusto and Republican Senate leaders, the only thing keeping restive troops in line is the fear that Democratic control will be much worse. If either the House agrees to amnesty and/or Bush signs a pork-laden “security” bill into law (I don’t think either will happen, but who knows in these crazy days), a schism could occur.

ptolemy on June 1, 2006 at 11:32 AM

IMHO, a new party bringing together social conservative Republicans, blue-collar ‘Reagan’ Democrats, and white-collar independents is an ultimate strategic solution. I don’t believe that the George Sorros/Limosine Liberal control of the Dems, and the Corporate Globalist control of the GOP, can be dislodged. Too much money, the ‘lifeblood of politics’, is in their hands. They have deftly used wedge issues to divide the great middle class, and conquer.

That is why a new party, free of these influences, is needed to re-unite and properly represent the interests of the middle class. The middle class will no longer be placated by crumbs from the table. Loss of culture and voting power to massive illegal immigration, cannot be papered over.

While strategically approproate, a third party is tactically unrealistic for 2006. The best short-term approach would be to disciplilne the GOP, by spanking the Senate and holding the House. This would stop the current hemorrhaging by slowing down the government. It would buy time to lay the foundation for a proper third party.

If the middle-class cannot re-assert itself in the political process, it will further diminish. The USA will degrade into yet another third-world nation.

dman on June 1, 2006 at 11:32 AM

In order for the conservatives to have any position at all in our government, BUSH’s AMNESTY BILL MUST BE DEFEATED AT THE HOUSE!

We must remove the path to citizenship part. Work permit suffices.

If the illegals have children in this country, under current law, they can apply for residency when the kids reach 18. We don’t need new law!

Work permit is the limit. NO FURTHER!

WE MUST HOLD THIS LINE! Write to your congressman now!

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 11:37 AM

I’ve been looking into third parties and I haven’t liked what I’ve seen. But on the other hand, I HATE what I’m seeing in the Senate right now – and the House is only marginally better. It is patently obvious that the Senate is pandering to POTENTIAL Hispanic voters in an attempt to woo them away from the Dems. I’m new to political parties, so I don’t know this could be accomplished, but how can we form a Border Security First faction within the GOP to make our voices heard?

Surely there must be a mechanism in place?

Right now my membership in the GOP is “inactive” because I refuse to send them any more money to waste on those traitors in the Senate, but if I need to donate to get it active to get this started, so be it.

Anyone here know how we can get this going?

xardoz on June 1, 2006 at 11:37 AM

Xardoz,

The removal of the RINOs commence at the primary. Some one must come out to lead the movement. We cannot do anything now without putting more blood sucking Democrats in place. You want to see Ted Kennedy running the country again?

Michelle, Ann, and Laura are a good team to lead this effort, if they can work together for the greater good of this country!

We are at war internally. We are fighting two fronts, the RINOS and the Demos. But we will prevail because we are right! It will take patience and resilience.

DON’T GIVE UP. DON’T LET THEM WEAR YOU DOWN.

Once we have a movement, we can whip them RINO a$$holes in place. Right now we have to defeat the amnesty bill first!

Easy87us

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 11:48 AM

Any third party must be developed to attract security minded Democrats and Independents. It should have a pretty narrow set of goals to start. Even if there are no successful candidates, the presence will shift the debate much like the Greens did for the Democrats.

In the interim, I also like the idea of designating a single write-in candidate for each race or state with objectionable D and R candidates. That way no petitions are needed and the protest vote for a single candidate will attract attention. A central website and maybe radio commercials would be used to promote the write-in.

MRegine on June 1, 2006 at 11:57 AM

Easy87us, From the education bill to this immigragion bill, Teddy and his friends ALREADY run the Senate. The Dems and the RINOs control the place, because Frist and the others are afraid to stand up to them.

Holding our noses and keeping the status quo changes NOTHING. For a new movement to be effective, candidates must be recruited, an agenda defined, and funding raised to challenge the RINOs. This takes time, which we don’t have. It will not happen this year. We have few viable candidates in the primaries, and have big $$$ and the MSM against us.

We need to do something different, so that the new movement can germinate. We need to send a stern message THIS year. 2008 is too late.

dman on June 1, 2006 at 12:03 PM

How about forming a Conservative Coalition GOP?

How about making George Allen the honorable Senate Spokeperson for our group?

How about making Tancredo the honorable Spokeperson in the House?

How about making Michelle our Chairman?

We can then launch attack against the RINOs during the primary!

We need to form a group within GOP, not outside of GOP!

Easy87us

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 12:28 PM

We need to set up a trust fund, and let Michelle have power of attourney to dispense it. If we can get $10. per person, we could generate $1,000,000 per 100,000 thousand contributors. We could make Ads and hold a big politician debate “tournament” for prize money. The 2 things that get politician’s attention most are money and voters. A movement of digruntled Republicans raising money outside the party would really kick the bee hive. The dems would have a field day and the Republicans would get a sobering wakeup call. I’d rather give money for Michelle to control than Ken Mehlman at this point. I got $10 to throw at it.

Shmo on June 1, 2006 at 12:31 PM

How about requiring any primary candidate pledge NOT to re-instate RINOs in their Senate chair positions?

dman on June 1, 2006 at 12:32 PM

I’ll throw out a few goals that would have cross party appeal.

1. Border security (separate from any guest worker program)

2. Reduce energy dependence

3. Simplify tax code

Who’s taking notes . . .

MRegine on June 1, 2006 at 12:33 PM

“RINOs must be sacrificed.”

Those 3 words from robman27 say it all.

Don’t sacrifice conservatives, but if you’re senator/representative is a RINO, you should work to defeat them, either at the primary level or in the general election. The only way conservatives will take the party back is by purging the RINOS.

Perhaps the RINOs should get together will all the moderate democrats in the country (both of them) and start a center party.

thirteen28 on June 1, 2006 at 12:34 PM

Maybe what we’re going to see over time is a major change-your-partner.
The leftish- elites, Hollywooders, libertarians, big business types, globalizing capitalists, the metro-cools, and all their respective wannabees, don’t give a hoot about this country, so they’ll go one way. The rest of us, heartland Americans, small town bourgeoise, blue collar workers, socially conservative ethnics, will go the other. This latter party will probably be strongly nationalistic and populist, and might even find a FDR figure to convincingly package many of the old faves of the democrats, ie, an energy policy, education, manufacturing jobs, as urgencies of national defense. If the DEMs weren’t so f-ing dumb they’d be doing that right now! I’d sure be listening.

dhimwit on June 1, 2006 at 12:39 PM

Guys, I like the optimissim.

What we need is not a new party. I suspect this is something the Democrat think tanks throw out to destroy us.

What we need is to purge the party of RINO!

To do this we can form a coalition, a political group with lots of media power to kick A$$!

When we have the power, the RINO will WINO!

First we must spread the message. We must come out and vote, hold the line and win the November election. I know we can pick up more seats because we have the right platform…we are on the right side of the amnesty bill so let us make it our platform. Don’t let those phony poll depress you.

Easy87us

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 1:23 PM

Uhh, thirteen28; that’s four words. Otherwise, good points.

Mike O on June 1, 2006 at 1:27 PM

If it only took a decade for the Republican leadership to go from Contract-with-America to today’s arrogant-open-borders-earmark-gluttons imagine what another decade will bring.

Clark1 on June 1, 2006 at 1:39 PM

Maybe another Huey Long!

Shmo on June 1, 2006 at 1:52 PM

TERM-LIMITS solves most of these issues…IMO We need a third party about as much as another hole in our heads.

Brian on June 1, 2006 at 1:52 PM

Okay folks, let’s stipulate that we can do SOMETHING in the primaries.

Which Senate RINOs are up for re-election this year, and who are the VIABLE conservative candidates opposing them? Let’s send $$ to the conservative opponents. We need a list.

Oh, pardon me. Olympia Snowe is up in Maine, but her conservative opponent, Edward M. Libby, didn’t make the ballot. He’s a write-in. Low odds of success. Dang. How many of the others are like her?

Where’s the list of candidates we might support that actually might make a difference THIS YEAR? C’mon “hold-your-nosers”, pony up!

dman on June 1, 2006 at 2:07 PM

All I know is that we shall be on top again after the House defeat the Amnesty Bill.

The will power of the House is at the test now. The House win, Bush and the RINOs will have to take a back seat. Bush knows this. He is worrying and keeping up the pressure.

If the House GOP defeat the bill, they will be on the side with 60% of the Americans. There is no way we won’t gain seat in November.

So we must defeat the senate Amnesty Bill! And we must defeat it overwhelmingly.

The rest is immaterial.

Easy87us

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 2:38 PM

I like the concept of term limits, but you wind up with perpetual green horns consumed with the learning curve instead of spending maximum time on problems. What we need to do is change the law to make all voters pass a G.E.D. test in English before getting a voter registration card. That would eliminate most of the problems.

That way the hapless “disinfranchised” hoards sustained by slopping in the public trough would not be able to let the dems use them as vote farming crops.

Shmo on June 1, 2006 at 2:45 PM

The Whigs? Perhaps you should read up on them first before you wish their return.

Check the nod-nod wink-wink…..that was a joke

The Ugly American on June 1, 2006 at 3:16 PM

Its time… the Republicans have broken faith with most of the electorate… but the Dems are even worse.

Homeland Security? Biggest government increase in size in history… and WORTHLESS!

Spending? Don’t get me started…

Corruption? Both sides are so bad its pathetic…

Gas? Foreign policy? Nukes in Iran and N. Korea? Breaking the Constitution (how can an American Citizen, in America, be a foreign combatant and so not have Civil Rights?)? Why is GITMO holding Prisoners of a Non War with no Civil Rights?

Eminent Domain, and BOTH Parties not doing a THING to combat the stupid Supreme Court Decision…

Cooked book economics (amazing how NO ONE I KNOW is making more money this year than last, and yet we supposedly had a 5% increase in real wages… and I can name at least 30 people who have been unemployed for so long they don’t get unemployment, so don’t “count” in unemployment numbers). I don’t buy the inflation numbers either as everything I buy seems to be WAY more expensive than last year…

Immigration??? (Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution “The Congress shall have the power to PROVIDE FOR CALLING FORTH THE MILITIA TO EXECUTE LAWS OF THE UNION, SUPRESS INSURRECTION, AND REPEL INVASIONS)… I’d say we’re both Not enforcing our own laws, but we ARE being invaded…

Both parties have created a legaly entrenched system, where everyone else has a harder time getting on the ballot, and THEY control TAX money used in elections…

Albert Einstein once said “One sign of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result”.

A Plauge on both your houses… its time for a third party.

And… if you had a real middle of the road party, not whacko religious nuts, or environmental whackos… you would pull people from the Dems as well.

Romeo13 on June 1, 2006 at 3:22 PM

I live in Maine, home of the Idiot Twins (Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe). I haven’t voted for either of them since ’98, but I can tell you there isn’t a prayer in hell of electing anyone else regardless of party. I’m guessing the same holds true for Lincoln Chafee, Arlen Specter, Chris Shays and the rest. As much as I’d like to see a third party split the vote and break their hold on office, between the moderates on both sides, it seems there will always be more than enough votes to keep these people in power. Very frustrating. I should move.

kmcguire on June 1, 2006 at 4:06 PM

Problem is, many of the pols are saying what we want to hear to get re-elected (‘ya think?). Immigration amnesty might fail this year, but after November the closet RINOs will come out and try again. With a boost from a Jan 2007 State of the Union speech, it could pass.

That’s why we need to spank ‘em in the Senate now. The House might just get enough courage to stop the second try.

I’ll do my share in the primaries, but am not optimistic that anything will change there.

dman on June 1, 2006 at 4:27 PM

So I created a new domain the other evening: http://www.23banditos.com

It’s not very complete yet; I just got Moveable Type up on it now, along with my first few posts (note the URL bar icon designed by my ‘webmaster’).

I’m a novice at this, so please be patient; I appreciate hearing constructive ideas, however.

Because I generally receive tons of junk spam in the comments section of my main blog site, I don’t auto approve comments so I encourage you to use a TypeKey account or register; otherwise your inaugural comment may take a short while to validate but after that I will approve you as a legit commenter.

linlithgow on June 1, 2006 at 5:13 PM

Uh, oops.

I guess I should clarify what 23 banditos means…

The site is dedicated to providing one source for info and discussions to alternative candidates to the GOP Senate turncoats, focusing on those who are up for re-election this year. I’ve looked into the challengers to the incumbents, posted their sites, and tried to get information on their views on illegal immigration.

I hope it’s a useful site for everyone.

linlithgow on June 1, 2006 at 5:37 PM

Spank the Senate!

The third party idea is great, BUT remember the Perot…
As a naive idealogue I hate to admit I probably helped elect Clinton. The younger voters will screw everything up if we have a third party in ’08.

How about if only TAXPAYERS get to vote? That would get the idiot college “progressives” and wishful thinkers like I was out of the ballot box.

NTWR on June 1, 2006 at 5:57 PM

Make that INCOME Taxpayers!

NTWR on June 1, 2006 at 5:57 PM

Kudos linlithgow! It’s just what we need to make a difference!

NTWR on June 1, 2006 at 5:59 PM

Thanks NTWR! That means a lot. =)

By the way, Chafee has an open house TODAY from 5:30 – 7:30 at his office (see his site for details: http://www.chafeeforsenate.com ).

linlithgow on June 1, 2006 at 6:08 PM

Conservatives are leaving the Republican Party & going here:

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

….In case anyone’s interested.

:)

VonHelton on June 1, 2006 at 6:30 PM

Thanks, linlithgow. This is a place to start. Let’s see if we can do SOMETHING before it’s too late.

dman on June 1, 2006 at 8:25 PM

we need to establish a viable party,
one that adheres to the core values of our founding fathers
if we could even get a grass root movement going?
so until then vote the lesser of two evils

michelle in 08!!!

mike hale on June 1, 2006 at 9:14 PM

DON’T LET THEM FOOL YOU!

Take back GOP.

No Third Party.

This is the Demos’ ploy to defeat us. Remember Perot???

Guys, we defeat Bush’s amnesty we shall be on the top!

That is all we need to do.

If we keep the issues open until the election, we WILL WIN!

No path to Citizenship, secure border, send more troops, no consultation with Mexico, no tax benefits for illegals, national ID, enforce current laws!

There is no way we could lose this election. It is a God send when the Democrats pick up the Amnesty bill!

No need for a new party now. After we win the elections, we have all the time to kick the RINO out in the primaries!

We just need a PAC!

easy87us on June 1, 2006 at 11:15 PM

Sorry Easy87us… I don’t buy it… the Republicans are just as corrupt as the Democrats, they have all been bought off by the 5% of special interests who give them money.

Republicans have the House, Senate, and Presidency, and spending has skyrocketed. No real campaign, or ethics reforms, no valid energy policy… and they are continuing a NON War… jerrymandering continues… and the American Aristocracy (Bush’s, Kennedys, Clintons) marches on because they have an “in” with the party.

I mean come on… either we are AT WAR… or we shouldn’t be invading another country… how can you have prisoners of WAR when you aren’t in a declared war? How many BLATANTLY unconstitutional acts have happened in the last 5 years?

Sorry… you want us to continue to vote for the same guys who failed us? To keep a party who has failed us in power?

If we do so now, do you REALLY think you will be able to make any changes??? after all, why should they change when no matter how F’d up they are, people like you will still campaign for them? You are in effect, rewarding bad behaviour.

Romeo13 on June 2, 2006 at 2:28 AM

If you look at linlithow’s list (which seems to be accurate), only 4 of the 23banditos are actually running for re-election. While we should do everything we can to defeat them, not much will change if that’s all we do.

* The Republicans have a 5-seat majority in the Senate.
* Many of the Republicans up for re-election voted ‘no’ to
‘CYA’. They are RINOs in hiding. We have to dig deeper.
* Unless there is real change in the political balance of
power, it will be back to ‘business as usual’ on Nov. 8th.
* If we stop the Senate immigration bill this year, the RINOs
will try again next year. We have to change the political climate
to permanently block this outrage.

dman on June 2, 2006 at 12:12 PM

(sorry for the misspell of linithgow’s name, and the failed attempt to format a bullet list.)

dman on June 2, 2006 at 12:28 PM

No worries. =)Thanks for visiting my site, by the way. =)

The thing to remember though is that even though only 4 are up for re-election (Frist is retiring), we still have options.

Lugar’s opponent is a Libertarian, anti-amnesty, pro-deportation guy who from the looks of it, is underfunded. What would happen if local GOPs, sick of Lugar, helped him, and made sure Lugar’s staff knew this?

We may not be able to make a difference in ALL seats, but in a few; and that might be enough to send a message. Additionally, if we also show STRONG support for people who voted against S2611 and the House members who are anti-illegal immigrant, we apply positive reinforcement (the old carrot and stick =).

Another message to get across is “we will remember” (we are elephants, after all =). I need more time to do research and see who is up in 2008. THAT could be a great election for us; send a message now, warn GOP RINOs, and the party in 2008 may be forced to entertain more pro-America candidates instead of being content with RINOs.

As for a third party, I have been giving it a lot of thought. On a knee jerk level I say heck yeah; on a practical level I think it’s inadvisable. The GOP have a structure and name in place that would be hard to generate for a third party. *WE* are the GOP, not the disconnected bobble heads in the beltway. We just need to remind them of that.

As for corruption, it is rife everywhere; a third party doesn’t guarantee to be lily-white. In cases where there are only non-GOP opponents to Reps who are pro-illegal, (like Lugar), propping up a candidate with good values is reasonable.

We need to remind our Reps that we are here, regardless of where they turn, and that we’re not silent.

Action items I think can be:

- go to open houses for your reps; put a face- an angry but well informed one- forward

- go to local debates and challenge candidates; put pressure on staffers with regard to key issues (pork, perks, taxes, immigration, etc)

- if an alternative candidate looks good but is evasive about key issues, try to get a direct answer; knowing someone isn’t a good alternative is a positive thing. If you find info like this out, please post it on 23 Banditos under the thread for that seat/candidates so its in one place (if there’s an alternate site already set up for this, I’m up for it too)

- as others have suggested, send back RNC requests for money in their own envelopes. We need to also put pressure on the party structure and put those who are pro-amnesty on the outside. Remember, election time is a way off; remind callers and solicitors for donations that if you see positive movement in the party, it will be rewarded

- remember support INDIVIDUAL candidates who have stood up for what’s right and funnel money away from the main party structure

linlithgow on June 2, 2006 at 2:21 PM

linlithgow (I’ll get it right eventually)

Agreed, timing for third party is not right just yet. I support all that you suggest, but would add the requirement that we demand that GOP candidates stand AGAINST re-electing RINO chairs. To h*ll with Senate tradition. That would distinguish true conservatives from the others.

This election will set up the 2008 contest. If we can scare the GOP into genuinely representing its constituents, a Democrat sweep in ’08 might be averted. There is a growing “throw the bums out” sentiment that is beyond the influence of Republican loyalists. That’s why we must make our impact this year.

dman on June 2, 2006 at 4:00 PM

linlithgow:

Thank You for your outstanding effort! Nice job!

horsepower_1st on June 3, 2006 at 1:02 PM