Video: Marine hit by IED before Haditha incident speaks

posted at 2:51 pm on May 31, 2006 by Allahpundit

His name is James Crossan, and he was sitting in the passenger seat next to Miguel Terrazas when the IED that killed the latter man exploded last November 19 in Haditha. The full 23-minute video is at the link. It’s long but worth it. Congratulations to KING5 News for making it happen.

I put together a four-minute digest for those who don’t have time.


Thanks for the tip to Red Hot Cuppa Politics, who’s made a list of the key facts gleaned from the interview.

Update: Martin Terrazas, Miguel’s father, is defending the Marines.

Exactly what happened that day remains unclear. Miguel Terrazas’ father, Martin, said the Marines his son fought with told him that after the car bomb exploded the Marines took a defensive position around his son’s battered vehicle. Insurgents immediately started shooting from nearby buildings, and the insurgents were using women and children as human shields, Martin said he was told.

The Marines shot back because “it was going to be them or” the insurgents, Martin said of what his son’s fellow Marines briefly described to him…

Terrazas said he has met with many from his son’s unit who told him they did only what was necessary to survive. He wouldn’t say when he spoke with them.

“Those Marines just did their job,” he said. “Some of these kids were saying, ‘We have to live with it’.”

Update: Vinnie at My Pet Jawa accuses Michelle of playing into the Khomeinists’ hands by writing about the allegations before charges have been filed. Brilliant, Vinnie. Meanwhile, Confederate Yankee looks at the comparisons between Haditha and My Lai and finds them wanting.

Update: CNN — all Murtha, all the time.

Update: The Times of London reports on the interview with Lance Cpl. Crossan. Guess which quote, out of 23 minutes of footage, they choose to highlight.

Update: Zeyad says the jihadis have a plan for the capital: “7th century Baghdad.”

Update: Uncle Jimbo asks a highly pertinent question.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Um, I’m sorry, but if these guys killed the people that Murtha seems to know they did kill, then they should be tried in a war crimes tribunal. I’m with Michelle, we should wait for the results of an investigation. I do however think that it should be an independant investigation. The Marines investigating the Marines just sounds off to me. Women and children for gods sake! We simply cannot defend the indefensible.

THeDRiFTeR on May 31, 2006 at 3:17 PM

Um, comments not working? Will repeat, we cannot try to defend what cannot be defended. If there was a massacre, then those responsible should be tried in a war crimes tribunal. This should also be investigated by an independant panel, not by the army or marines. Just my opinion.

THeDRiFTeR on May 31, 2006 at 3:21 PM

He speaks of the insurgents using children as scouts. Earlier CNN showed footage of a couple of girls who were injured in this mess. One of the girls states that she knew a bomb was going to go off so she covered her ears and waited to leave her home to go to school because of that. The Iraqi interviewer later said she got confused while telling that part of the story. I’m not coming down on either side of the fence here, but I do believe there is much more to this than Murtha and the MSM presents. As an aside, the biased media around the globe are having collective, multiple orgasms over this story.

Bellicose Muse on May 31, 2006 at 3:24 PM

Let them do what they have to do before anyone puts their foot in their mouth..Innocent until proving guilty…
My thoughts and prayers for our Men and Women serving for our Country.
I’m very proud of them and always will be no matter the outcome…Standing my ground.

alyce on May 31, 2006 at 3:29 PM

thedrifter – Do you preach to the Islamofacists throatslitters and vest wearers that kill women and children, by design???

When we kill innocent civilians, we regret it, which is the opposite of the Islamofacists.

I’m sure you are a liberal, bush-hater, against the war and the military.

You know nothing of our Marines, how they constantly go out of their way, at their own risk, to not injure civilians.

You’re “Women and children for gods sake!” is typical of the liberal left commies that are ruining our country. That sentence makes me sick.

Let the military do their investigation.

If you knew anything about the way the military does their investigation, then you wouldn’t be so cynical.

Tell it to the terrorists.

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 3:32 PM

Richard Davis – You know nothing of me. Bush hater? Give me a break. Holding these marines to a higher standard than terrorists seems appropriate to me. Sorry if that offends you. I’m a christian man. My “women and children” comment was not made to offend either, much less make you sick.

THeDRiFTeR on May 31, 2006 at 3:40 PM

I wish I had the links at my fingertips, but I dont. Every person not in American uniform in Iraq is a possible insurgent, or ‘bad guy’. Kids, women, old ladies, all types have killed our soldiers. There have been video clips of kids 5 to 8 years old with AK’s. Women with bombs. Men, dressed as women, with RPG’s. Most Iraqis are good people, but imagine if you could never know what the enemy looked like, on any day?

shooter on May 31, 2006 at 3:42 PM

As far as I know the investigation is not complete. So in my humble opinion until then, no one knows what transpired.

Cpilot on May 31, 2006 at 3:47 PM

If not here then soon,as the enemy now sees a clear advantage to using women and children as shields for their cowardice,and any resultant casualties can be press release/propoganda fodder for them.Like anyone else, I am saddened by the loss of what may be innocent victims here,but until we know the facts I tend to stand by our guys,pure and simple.Like I heard today, “We are the land of the free BECAUSE of the brave”.We are dealing with a horribly immoral enemy who will even kill their own if it suits their end.To hamstring our own men and micromanage their every combat move is a form of surrender.

bbz123 on May 31, 2006 at 3:57 PM

It’s a war zone…our guys are risking their lives for this. The idea that they did something wrong grates on every nerve of my body while those stinking beasts are killing their own, daily. They have no problem strapping a grenade to a young girl or boy and sending them into the market place to die for bloody stinking allah. Meanwhile we are going to accuse the good guys of killing possible insurgents. I will stand behind our troops….no matter what. Everyone needs to get a backbone here….stand for our guys….What do you think FDR would have done with this….? Do you think he would have even cared..? Do you think the media, at the time, would have been so hostile? I have asked my self these questions over and over…I know the answer…does anyone else?

Sandys Beach on May 31, 2006 at 4:07 PM

Link to frontpagemag.com for Robert Spencer’s story, “The Last Day of the World. How disunity can defeat the West”. Great background story of what happened when Constananople fell to the Muslems.

birdman on May 31, 2006 at 4:09 PM

I do however think that it should be an independant investigation. The Marines investigating the Marines just sounds off to me.

Drifter –

Why don’t you trust the Marines to investigate alleged war crimes? As a Marine, myself, I can tell you the serious nature of the allegations is shocking to me, as I’m certain it is for the investigators. Women and children indeed! Who better than good Marines to put on the case? Who else would have more investment in the truth coming out than the rest of the Corps (you know, the vast majority) NOT accused of war crimes?

I’m not attacking you, just curious to know what you mean by this sounding “off.”

Kadnine on May 31, 2006 at 4:20 PM

I agree with Kadnine let the Marines conduct the investigation. The Marines are right there on top of the situation. They are the ones doing the fighting, and dieing. The libs are trying to turn Iraq into another Vietnam, by “micromanaging” everything our troops do. We are at war for the very servival of our CIVILIZATION. We connot trust an “Independent investagation” to people who have only their agenda to look out for, people who dispise our Military, or only want to embarras the Prez.

birdman on May 31, 2006 at 4:40 PM

Very good point birdman, any “independent” group would have to have participants from both sides of the fence to make sure it is “balanced” and we have ample evidence to see that the libs will only use it to try and gain advantage as opposed to getting the facts straight.

bbz123 on May 31, 2006 at 4:55 PM

Kadnine -

I didn’t say that I didn’t “trust” the marines to conduct an honest, and thorough investigation. And perhaps using the word off was well, off. I hadn’t considered your point, and it is well taken. You are, of course, abslolutely right that the corps has a vested interest in the truth coming out, whatever that truth might be. The fact that it took 6 months for this to surface, and that the commander and chief was made aware by the Time article concerns me, but that’s another discussion. I do however believe that this will leave an opening to those that would oppose the effort for political reasons. Not evil in itself, but the appearance of evil. I thank you for your comment. It’s always easier in a discussion when the participants do not resort to name calling and character assassination. Puts me on the defensive, and you have thoughtfully avoided doing so.

THeDRiFTeR on May 31, 2006 at 5:00 PM

How about an independent panel to investigate who set the roadside IED that killed our Marine (and over 2,000 more Americans, plus thousands of innocent men, women & children)? I suggest it be led by Representative Murtha! No. The UN! No. Senator Spector! No. Any liberal democrat! No!

Incessant criticism of the ‘cure’ vice the ’cause’ (Islamic extremism) is a liberal disease unto itself.

Don Rumsfeld . . . Git’r done!

* Michelle, as always, your (Haditha) Vent is spot on!

BJ Phisch on May 31, 2006 at 5:07 PM

Fair enough.

I wouldn’t read too much into the “it took six months for this to surface” angle. I expect this to be a thorough investigation. The gravity of the charges demand nothing less. Look at it this way:

1) If investigation exhonorates these Marines, we’ll need exhastive evidence to prove it. The smear campaign of screaming, “COVERUP!” has already begun.

2) If investigation convicts these Marines, again we’ll need exhastive evidence to prove what I already know from experience. Namely, that the vast majority of Marines on the ground in Iraq are NOT war criminals.

Kadnine on May 31, 2006 at 5:15 PM

Hot Air crew –

Have you considered a preview function for the comment section? I think I’ve embarassed myself with spelling errors in each and every one of my comments, so in good form I’ll pass the buck and blame yall ;)

Kadnine on May 31, 2006 at 5:24 PM

I wish there were a complete media blackout of Murtha and his seditious comments and of trials that have not yet happened!
Trial by media is never fair.

NTWR on May 31, 2006 at 5:29 PM

It is always people that have never served in combat that are the first to condemn the actions of those that have. As one that has served in combat with the finest soldiers a Platoon Sergeant could ever hope for, I learned one thing. Listen to the soldier. Let them all explain, one at a time what happened. That is the only way the truth will ever be known. A leader learns that his soldiers will do what is right if the leader expects it and serves as an example. Have faith that the soldier will do the right thing and he will. I pray that these young Marines will all be vindicated in the end. Unfortunately, simply becuase they have been accused of committing an atrocity, many will still doubt their innocence forever. Those of you that have never served in combat, or have never lost a soldier, will never understand the pain that one endures for the rest of their life. Please stop the debate. Let the truth be discovered and told. Those that insist on finding these young marines guilty before the truth is known should be sent to experience what they have. I pray for all the troops that are serving in harms way. I regret that I am a disabled veteran retired from military service and cannot be with them now. I feel their pain, I have the same nightmares. I lost friends, comrades and one of my own soldiers. I still hear their voices and see their faces when I close my eyes to sleep. I suffer for every loss of life as if they were all my soldiers and sons. I am proud of them all. I am proud to call them my brothers in arms.

immigration inspectr on May 31, 2006 at 6:00 PM

Yup, me too. (Except I was a INF SQD LDR, not a PSG.)

E5infantry on May 31, 2006 at 6:35 PM

Drifter – you want it both ways, you come out swinging against the Marines with your opening sentence.

You said,
“Um, I’m sorry, but if these guys killed the people that Murtha seems to know they did kill, then they should be tried in a war crimes tribunal.”

Beginning with your pompous sarcastic “Um, I’m sorry” and followed by, “Murtha seems to know THEY DID KILL, then they should be “TRIED IN A WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL”

(I guess Murtha is your idea of a war hero, John Kerry too…)

You are easy to see through drifter, YOU CONDEMN before the investigation is over, just like Murtha who is a traitor and who is your hero, you both are politicizing this.

YOU DRIFTER – hope this happened so you can delight in it, and criticize our Marines.

Then you said this:
“I’m with Michelle, we should wait for the results of an investigation.”

(HUGE LIE, you might be able to fool the liberals, but you ain’t fooling us, FOOL!!!)

Then you said:
“I do however think that it should be an independant investigation.”

(To you, independant means – by a liberal who hates Bush and the military.)

The Marines investigating the Marines just sounds off to me.
You know what you meant by “OFF” stick to your words – COWARD!

“Women and children for gods sake! We simply cannot defend the indefensible”

Your words still make me sick. TELL IT TO THE TERRORISTS – THEY ARE THE ONES WHO’S ACTIONS HAVE BEEN 100 PERCENT INDEFENSIBLE!!!!!

Our Marines have done all they can to honor life almost 100 percent of the time. If someone did wrong, they will be punished but YOU Drifter are as easy to see through as a window. YOU are glad it happened so you can use it against Bush, the military, and us Right wingers.

And don’t tell me or anybody about resorting to “namecalling” because I would rather be called a name, than be like you, which is a SNEAK! You act like your comment is fair and balanced, but anyone can see your agenda is to smear our Marines.

Help us fight this war or get the hell out of the way! No, on second thought,

JUST GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY, PHONIES LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO GET US ALL KILLED.

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 6:36 PM

Richard Davis -

And warriors like you keep us alive. I feel safer already…

THeDRiFTeR on May 31, 2006 at 6:50 PM

No one need worry about warriors like me, I won’t harm them, so you can indeed sleep well.

They need to worry about Islamofacist jihadists and wolves in sheep clothing, like you. (and don’t hide behind the “I’m Christian” sheild either…)

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 7:11 PM

“Update: Vinnie at My Pet Jawa accuses Michelle of playing into the Khomeinists’ hands by writing about the allegations before charges have been filed. Brilliant, Vinnie.”

As much as I do respect Michelle, Vinnie’s post does have several good points. I can understand where Michelle is coming from, but Vinnie’s point needs to be heard as well, the unecessary dig at the end notwithstanding.

1) “A fraction? What’s a fraction of the truth? A half truth? Which is a lie, according to most definitions.”

I completely agree with this point. This is an either-or situation. Either Marines killed innocent civilians without provocation, or they didn’t – their are no ‘fractional’ killings. There is no case where they “kind of killed them without provocation”. And no matter what else happened that day, if they didn’t, they are innocent.

2) “But they’ll celebrate, as I do, the Greatest Generation. The one that interned Japanese, nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki (toddlers are dead, people), firebombed Dresden and Tokyo, invented the flamethrower, Napalm, White Phosphorous, and various and sundry other horrific ways to kill people.

We correctly laud these things as having been necessary in order to protect our United States, but, the fact is, each of these killled many civilians. And we sanctioned it, and have accepted it for decades.”

Absolutely. Like Vinnie, I think we were justified in most of these actions, but let’s make no mistake about it – we killed thousands and thousands of innocent civilians in a most brutal fashion. Maybe those incidents are viewed differently because they were much more impersonal than what is alleged here. Maybe it proves (a paraphrased version of) Stalin’s old adage: a few deaths are a tragedy, thousands of them are a statistic.

As Vinnie said, “Such is war”. We don’t need to get out in front of it to prove anything to the moonbat Murtha left, including that we don’t want Marines conducting execution style killings. The Murtha’s of the world will accuse our Marines of atrocities anyway (Jesse MacBeth, et al., anyone?), so pre-emptively condemning them just in case they are guilty as charged here isn’t going to do anything for those of us that support the war and support the troops. It’s only going to wet their appetite and give them legitimacy that they don’t deserve. Let’s not forget what almost happened with 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano a year ago.

As for the veracity of the charges, I have some serious doubts. Reports are trickling out that the Marines were indeed caught in some crossfire right after the bomb exploded. These charges originated from a Sunni stronghold, and the Sunnis have far and away been the most beligerent, insurgency-aiding and terrorist-enabling faction in Iraq since the fall of Baghdad. It’s not beyond them to fabricate charges like this, nor is it beyond them to use civilians as human shields, nor is it beyond them to actually participate in an attack against our soldiers.

So for now I’m going to give our Marines a great big benefit of the doubt and I’m going to take any charges stemming from this incident with a huge grain of salt. If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s our Marines and soldiers that volunteered for duty that put them in this situation in the first place. And if anyone deserves an extra large dose of skepticism, it’s the residents of a town of insurgent-loving, terrorist-enabling Sunnis.

thirteen28 on May 31, 2006 at 7:44 PM

Unlike many of you I lived during WWII and I guarantee if we had a tribunal everytime a civilian was killed the war would STILL be going on. War is hell and people get killed, soldiers and civilians alike anywhere there is war zone. Haditha was a war zone with even a hostile civilian population being in Sunni territory. There evidently was a serious engagement between terrorists and our forces where civilians were present. In the heat of battle, civilians were killed, it doesn’t matter whether they were men, women or children. You can spin it any sanctimonious way you want but we weren’t there so there is no way to know how one would have reacted under the battle conditions.
Perhaps some of this could have been avoided. Perhaps some poor decisions were made. So what!! Battles never go according to plan – that’s an ancient axiom of war.

docdave on May 31, 2006 at 8:48 PM

Thanks to the Time Magazine embedded traitor (and liberals like Murtha), the Islamofacist assassins WILL INCREASE THEIR TACTIC OF HIDING AMONGST THE CIVILIANS.

The assassins will win this war as long as the msm and the liberals continue to root against our military.

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 8:55 PM

Breaking News:

The AP reports “Soldiers kill pregnant woman”

What is the press doing to our military effort?

Assassins new tactic – make bombs that look like pregnant women and US troops won’t shoot, thank you liberals!!

Are you happy now Liberals?????

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 9:13 PM

It’s easy to decide what should and should not be done from the safety of one’s living room. But when the bombs go off and the lead starts flying, when your buddy’s body gets torn in half in front of you and the feces hits the fan, things change. Let’s wait for all the facts before we start to pass judgment.

pubscout on May 31, 2006 at 9:57 PM

The big problem that no one wants to look atis that WE have centuries of training in civilized behavior, any Western male worth a damn is ingrained with the “women and children first” mentality.The animals we are fighting use that concept in a different mode altogether.We cherish and protect our women and children,they use them as fodder.THis is a threshold we are loathe to face,but they are determined to make us face it, God help us all.

bbz123 on May 31, 2006 at 10:16 PM

Yep here we go. Another report of an “incident” in Iraq. Now we went and shot a pregnant woman, unfortunate but it happens. I know that sounds harsh but everyday bad things happen in Iraq because of mistakes and misunderstandings on both sides.
War is war no matter how anyone tries to dress it up. Apparently the car she was in didn’t acknowledge the escalation of force techniques used by the Marines. I would have shot it too. You give a minimum of 3 different types of warnings. By this time the majority of Iraqis who ride in cars are quite familiar with EOF and it’s purpose. I can tell you out of experience it’s tough to put your sights on a target and have to make a decision on to pull or not to pull the trigger. But I can tell you this,after you clean up whats left of your Marine from a suicide bomber attack it can sometimes become an us or them mentality. That’s the kind of stuff that keeps you up at night, wondering if you did the right thing today. Like everyone else I too wonder what happened in Hideatha. What stands out in my mind is that they actually went after something. Usually when an IED goes off you have no idea where the triggerman is. It’s almost pointless to just randomly search houses. Somebody saw something to get them moving through houses like that, and based off of experience when insurgents blow an IED in a populated area they like to follow it up with small arms fire and rpgs. Things might have gotten out of hand after that. Don’t know, wasn’t there. I get the sense something isn’t right on both sides. I dont’ trust Iraqis of any gender or age. I grow tired of how most of the Iraqis this and most of the Iraqis that… blah blah blah. Two different cultures. It doesn’t matter what we do we are still westerners and will never enjoy total trust from them and they will continute to turn there heads when the IED’s are planted. That’s no excuse to mow them down, they are between a rock and a hard place themselves. Part of our training is to teach tolerance and not to make decisions based on emotions. It’s a hard thing to teach. Unfortunately you learn from experience. Some learn that lesson too late.

gator70 on May 31, 2006 at 11:55 PM

Either Murtha is incredably stupid or he’s a tartor.
Using children as scouts is an old Viet Cong tactic.
The Somolian Militias did the same thing. Then When an incident occured use the Liberal Press, to turn public opinon against the war. This is a war against Terrorism, its a dirty type of war and in order to win it you have to some times get your hands dirty. This is a fact of life that the liberals just don’t or refuse to see.
Keep in mind the Liberal MSM turned public opinon against the Vietnam war, and because of it over a million Vietnamese were killed, and over 1.8 million Cambodian civilians were killed because we didn’t finish the job in Vietnam.
The MSM, and people like, Murtha, Ramsy Clarkm Jimmy Carter, Michael Moore…etc.are not only trators, their also mass murders.
ZSQUAD

ZSQUAD on June 1, 2006 at 12:40 AM

“I wish there were a complete media blackout of Murtha and his seditious comments and of trials that have not yet happened!
Trial by media is never fair.

NTWR on May 31, 2006 at 5:29 PM”

I’m with you on that one, WHEN can we charge this scumbag, murtha, with treason??

Has no one on here ever heard of the concept of “Collateral Damage”? For cripes sake, people, if war isn’t brutal the human animal will come to like it way too much.

Duty, Honor, Country
(in THAT order)
Rowane

Rowane on June 1, 2006 at 1:59 AM

I think the point is, we should not give any one the benafit of the doubt in this matter.
We should, as Americans (and this includes Murtha) remember that the Marines are innocent until PROVEN guilty! Not until some wind bag pronounces them guilty on msnbc, not when the media crucifies him, but when the investigators have laid out the evidence, the judge and Jury have reviewed the evidence, and the verdict is reached.

More Americans should remember this.

Wyrd on June 1, 2006 at 7:48 AM

To TheDrifter:

“Women and children for Gods (sic) sake?”

Just who do you think these savages kill when they blow themselves up, invisible people? Try innocent women and children. Barbarians all.

GOD BLESS THE MARINES and the chips fall where they may.

I will not judge what I cannot judge.

That “We are better than they” crap is old and tired. Three thousand-plus dead Americans on September 11, 2001 prove that.

ForYourEdification on June 1, 2006 at 9:15 AM

To The Drifter:

“Women and children for gods (sic) sake?”

Just who do you think these savages kill in their homicide bombing attacks? Clue: innocent women and children.

GOD BLESS THE MARINES!

These barbarians declared war, and we must finish it. Those who believe that we should fight a war handicapped by ‘special rules’ are as bad as the enemy.

We are fighting TERRORISTS, and the rules of the game have changed. They changed them on September 11, 2001.

ForYourEdification on June 1, 2006 at 9:22 AM

THAT’S IT! I AM NOW OFFICIALLY AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ AND I WANT ALL US SERVICE PERSONNEL OUT OF THE COUNTRY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Top U.S. General in Iraq Orders Value Training for Troops
Thursday, June 01, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq — The top U.S. general in Iraq on Thursday ordered American commanders to conduct core values training on moral and ethical standards on the battlefield.
Army Gen. George W. Casey’s order came as the U.S. military investigated whether U.S. Marines might have intentionally killed unarmed civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha on Nov. 19.

The killings, in which victims included women and children, followed a bomb attack on a military convoy that killed a Marine.

Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, said in a statement the training would emphasize “professional military values and the importance of disciplined, professional conduct in combat” as well as Iraqi cultural expectations.

“As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies,” Chiarelli said. “The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many.”

The training will be conducted in units over the next 30 days and was aimed at reinforcing training service members received prior to their deployment, according to the statement.

The order was issued about a week after the U.S. Marine Commandant, Gen. Michael W. Hagee, traveled to Iraq and cautioned troops on the danger of becoming “indifferent to the loss of a human life,” following the allegations that Marines killed civilians in Haditha.

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on June 1, 2006 at 9:35 AM

Dread Pirate Roberts:

I AGREE!

However, remember this: President Bush has interfered with ALL the generals who SHOULD be running the war. Instead, Bush is conducting a POLITICALLY CORRECT WAR, trying to placate the looney left and traitors like Murtha.

If we are going to be politically correct, Americans WILL die!

And so, I agree, if we WANT to lose, we should leave now.

ForYourEdification on June 1, 2006 at 9:43 AM

Innocent until proven guilty.

The following is anecdotal. There are tons of possible scenarios that happened that day, one being:

*******************

A fire fight breaks out – the marines were engaging 1 home; the home with the children and women. The Marines finally gain control of the home and enter. By this time the 2 to 3 adult males that created the fire fight are hiding in spider holes under the home with a weeks worth of food rations, Radios, etc (old trick – Saddam Hussein not the inventor).

As the Marines enter the home one last live round is fired at the marines by the fleeing male insurgents and then from the Marines point of view everything in that house is suspect (as if it wasn’t already) and anything that moved died.

That’s just anecdotal food for thought.

*******************

Btw, criminals are clever, children are often used for criminal acts, women are not always innocent (they are becoming suicide bombers), african children that are soldiers will kill with a smile on their face (possible in Iraq), criminals hide themselve well (Malvo and Mohammed were snipers in an old automobile in Washington DC with a hole in the trunk – Saddam tried the hole trick but failed), …

This clever plot (to antagonize the Marine so that they kill innocent people or what appear to be innocent people) could have been a genius plan cooked up by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. If so, this guy has “1 Up’ed” Osama Bin Laden on the 9-11 attack.

I saw an interview on CNN of a child, some “8 years” old girl that apparently played dead so that the Marines wouldn’t kill her. Who is this girl? Where are her parents? Who did her parents associate with?

I reiterate, innocent until proven guilty.

ar_basin on June 1, 2006 at 10:34 AM

This column should be read by everyone following this issue:

http://www1.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/haditha_explaining_the_inexpli.html

thirteen28 on June 1, 2006 at 1:19 PM

Funny thing about the shooting of the pregnant woman…(sorry, I do not mean to make lite of this) BUT if she had been murdered by her husband or mother-in-law, as is the case in that cesspool of a country, everyone would be looking the other way. The honor killings are rampant and the removing of an unwanted daughter-in-law is common and lawful. Our news media stinks to high heaven…rats in a corner which I refuse to watch anymore. They need to be reminding us that the life of a woman, pregnant or not in that ceespool has very little value. So, why is everyone so upset?????

Sandys Beach on June 1, 2006 at 3:23 PM

This is insane. When PC idiots muster the guts to realize that the enemy is ISLAM, all this silly bleeding heart crap will be rendered moot. Why do we have to fight with one hand tied behind our back? No one else does! My God, folks…

THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pffft. Coulter was right. Go ahead allah, delete this comment also.

ecamorg on June 1, 2006 at 5:44 PM

ecamorg:

Ditto on “Coulter was right,” and the rest of your post too. A review of any 100 of the 1200 years of Islamic history will tell you everything you need to know about their intentions, methods, and motivations. Its all there.

Know your enemy. Hell, acknowledge that you even have an enemy in the first place!

inmanjh on June 1, 2006 at 6:18 PM

I say we pull the troops out and start carpet bombing like we used to. Give them 24 hours to move out and then let ‘er rip. After we flatten the country, it’ll be easier to find the terrorists. I’d start with the Sunni mosques.

RolandHall on June 1, 2006 at 9:01 PM

Give em a break – don’t prosecute soldiers!!!

This is war- legal murder and destruction. (what the h*ll are we doing nation building for people that hate us?)

The things we have asked these guys to do and the conditions they endure give us the luxury of debating legalities in peace. We turn them into the killing machines necessary to win WAR, and then we have the gall to consider them criminals? Those guys, whether they made a mistake this time or not (and next time sensitivity could cost them their buddies life), are the selfless heros I’d want watching my back (and they are watching all of ours), not someone with corevalue? training towards a hostile population.

Condolences and apologies to the survivors if the victims were innocent, and on to the next mission, which should be redeploying to longterm strategic Iraqi bases while the Iraqis kill each other peacefully.

Reality Check on June 1, 2006 at 11:49 PM

Alleged still has meaning no matter what the MSM says..

Brah on June 2, 2006 at 1:02 AM

With all the calls for due process, innocent until proven guilty and such, coming from the left pertaining to the internees in Gitmo and possibly elsewhere, I see no reason our Brave Marines deserve any less.

Serious charges have been alleged and in depth investigations are ongoing. Until they are finished, people like Murtha should just SHUT UP!

Trashing our troops while in harm’s way for political gain is about as low as anyone can get. Kerry did it in ’71 and memories of that cost him the Presidency (fortunately). Murtha is doing it now and hopefully, it is going to cost him his seat in the House.

His opponent, Diana Irey, in this election deserves all the support she can muster to unseat him.

LewWaters on June 2, 2006 at 3:23 AM

Reality Check…you are the island of reason in a sea of turmoil. Thank you for that post and I am praying that we come to our senses before it is too late.

Sandys Beach on June 2, 2006 at 8:05 AM

In Sep ’05, 14 Marines were killed instantly by a massive IED in Haditha (worst one ever) and during the same month 6 more were blown to smitherines. This history is not known by the public. I was listening to WPHT 1210AM and Curt Weldon was telling Dom Giordano all about it. It puts things in context. Which is what Weldon was stressing – CONTEXT…

The Marines were trying their best to get this area under control, but the town people were pretty much in cohoots with the terrorists. When the Nov ’05 incident occurred and yet another 20-yr old was blown in half, the Marines decided “a new tactic” (my words).

No matter what this investigation reveals – To me, all these “civilians” are collaborators. I would exhonerate all the Marines. None of them are guilty of anything. I say our Marines don’t kill anybody who don’t deserve it… (at least 99.999% of them don’t). They do what they have to do.

When Abu Garab occurred, as bad as it was, I felt it would blow over… but this Hadathi thing…. my gut-just-feels-worse…. I sense it will handcuff our guys, there’s only one way to fight this war and the public needs to know the history… the left is running rampant with more similar stories (ie: pregnant women shot, man shot and troops put a shovel in his hand, etc etc..). More than likely the man did use a shovel to bury an IED. I will stand with our Marines…

Also, now they are getting mandatory “sensitivity” and “rules of war – civilian rights” training.. I don’t like this cycle…. This could be the beginning of the end… We have to do something!!

Richard Davis on June 2, 2006 at 10:38 AM

Sensitivity training is a joke…large corporations are making it a yearly practice to force ALL employees to attend these time wasters. I attended one…huge waste of time and all it did was to sour everyones feelings about race and all the other BS! Now, we must force our military into this crap?….WAR is about one thing…WINNING.. and that is turning out to be politically incorrect. What a mess we have allowed ourselves….our leaders have NO back bone and we are truly on our own….The so-called elected officials are nothing more than Benedict Arnolds…every one of them..from our local politicians clear up to the White House. Here’s a definition of the word politics..
POLY… meaning many, TICS… meaning blood sucking insects.
HA!..this joke is on the American Voters!

Sandys Beach on June 2, 2006 at 11:19 AM

“I say we pull the troops out and start carpet bombing like we used to.”

This is what we should have done after the first uprising in Fallujah – we should have ‘Dresden-ized’ the place and sent the Sunnis an unequivocal message that any continued resistance will meet with a swift and brutal response, as well as letting them know that they have more to fear from our reprisals than from al Qaeda’s.

Instead, we hesitated, tried to take the moderate approach, and this thing has just dragged on and on and on.

You don’t win wars by winning hearts and minds. You win wars by making your enemy fear you so much that it completely crushes their will to resist. You can concnern yourself with winning hearts and minds only after you have done this.

Machiavelli was right. It is better to be feared than loved. And in subduing your enemies, you are better to determine what injuries you need to inflict and then do so in one stroke, lest you have to continually repeat them. In our desire to see ourselves as better than the enemy, as more humane, we have taken a soft approach and allowed the carnage to be dragged out, which is the most inhumane thing we could have done.

thirteen28 on June 2, 2006 at 11:22 AM

thirteen28 – well said!

Richard Davis on June 2, 2006 at 11:39 AM

Here is some perspective for you; 37 millions civilians killed in WWII; 200,000 in Korean war; 20,000+ in Vietnam war. When civilians are in a war zone, some of them WILL get killed!!

Another thing, we greatly handicap our troops by making them avoid conflict when civilians are present. Do you think the terrorist do the same? If anything they use that to their advantage. By trying to placing civilized rules of military conduct on our troops while the enemy has no rules whatsoever, we are giving the enemy an advantage that has to have increased the number of our troops casualties.

docdave on June 2, 2006 at 12:21 PM