Haditha

posted at 10:37 am on May 31, 2006 by Bryan

Bush * Witnesses * CNN
Marines’ families * Iraqi PM * NYTimes * Drone video/radio traffic
History of Haditha * MKHam
Kesler * MM.com
The truth about Haditha
Another Marine comes forward

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Damn right, let the report be released before we start in on the bogus news reports. All the current leaks are doing is stirring up Iraqis to riot.

E L Frederick on May 31, 2006 at 10:56 AM

I’ve already made my feelings on this subject known elsewhere on HotAir, for which my sanity has come under question by the “powers that be”.

So I’ll only add that the Bible, my Holy book, says “An eye for an eye..” It may also say to “turn the other cheek!” But I, like my enemy, choose to read the parts which suit my purpose.

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 31, 2006 at 10:58 AM

Congressman Murtha, have you no shame?

birdman on May 31, 2006 at 11:36 AM

Murtha is dangerous IED.
An Idiot Elected Democrat.

Sugar Land on May 31, 2006 at 11:56 AM

I don’t claim to be an expert on the Geneva Conventions or military policy but there seems to be a disconnect between the rules of war and our rules of engagement.
Going back to the Franco Prussian war there was a recognition that civilian participants in military conflicts could create difficulties resulting in atrocities. So nation states created mutually obligating treaties that required standardized uniforms to identify combatants. Our rules of engagement put even stricter restrictions on our troops. The problem comes from the nature of terrorists. They are not signatories to any treaty since they do not represent any nation-state. They purposely wear civilian clothes and use mosques as weapons storage bases. If we return fire on civilian homes or attack mosques we risk alienating the population of Iraq. If we don’t we risk high casulaties of our troops.

So, we have one side that ignores the rules of war and another that bends over backwards to ensure restrained combat. We have one side that desires civilian casualties and another that tries to avoid them. Our side has courts martial for soldiers who break the rules. The other side has no restraint on their atrocities. It seems to me that we are asking our troops to bring a squirt gun to a gun fight.

We also understand that certain responses to combat are the result of our physiology. We know that police officers react after a high-speed chase because of the build up of adrenaline. Sociologically we understand the desire for revenge as a function of small group cohesion. Our rules of engagement go against the most natural and automatic responses.

I would not suggest that we unleash the full power of our fury. I would not want to see another Dresden or Hiroshima. I would suggest that we stop demonizing our troops. I would suggest that we not make a moral equivalence between the actions of a combat situation and the calculated beheadings of civilians. We are asking our soldiers to perform an impossible task. They deserve our support. Rep. Murtha should apologize to them.

mkstach on May 31, 2006 at 12:02 PM

Well said, Michelle.

dman on May 31, 2006 at 12:03 PM

I concur
If they are truly at fault, may they all be punished to the maximum the law allows
If they are truly not guilty, may nothing happen to them

Defector01 on May 31, 2006 at 12:04 PM

Murtha, once known for his bravery.
He is now known for his moronic views because he is a nobody.
When someone is high on power and who is old and senile has no place to suck the high power anymore, now has to try to suck it from some other place including our Military.
Does anyone know where that brave military solider(Murtha) went .
Maybe if we look hard enough we’ll find him under a rock which he crawls out of just to see if the other morons (left nutjobs) are there so he can release the vile that it just bubbling up in his stomache…

alyce on May 31, 2006 at 12:08 PM

Maybe we ought to see if this Marine Patrol

A. Really did it

B. If they had a combat reason for it

C. That they get at least as much constitutional Protection as the 25th Hi-Jacker did

Also in Malkin’s piece on her blog I had serious problems with Ryan B’s story, first he wasn’t a family member of anyone in Kilo company. Second the guy wasn’t in the unit, Third, he seemed to have remarkable clarity in describing even his footsteps months later, he was ordered to document the crime scene (wasn’t a crime scene at the time) and somehow he erased all the evidence and BTW he is on trial for lying to the police, going on a hi-speed chase in a truck he just stole only hours after his return from Iraq, drove it through a house with children in it and fought with police officers. Naturally this was posted at the bottom of the article and described as a “Bit of Trouble”

Sooooo, if this the the preponderance of the evidence against the Marines?

Murtha, also reduced himself to an Marine hating anti American Shrill for not waiting for the facts to emerge, even begged by the Commandant of the Marine Corp to keep his yap shut.

More attacks on Marines are coming in Iraq brough to you by Murtha in 2008 campaign

EricPWJohnson on May 31, 2006 at 12:15 PM

what is it with all these so-called ‘leaks’? If people have something to say, then they should have the courage to stand up for what they are saying.

Do not hide behind the ‘sources’ garbage that so-called journalists ‘quote’ – I personally tune out when a report starts in with the ‘un-named sources say….’

Either have the courage to say what you mean and mean what you say – publicly, with all comments attributable to you – or SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP.

Only cowards hide. Only cowards choose to be ‘un-named’.

There are people who DO walk the walk as well as talk the talk – they are the ones out in the world defending all the freedoms you cowards so conveniently hide behind. Too bad they can’t pick & choose who they are defending.

blueskieswoman on May 31, 2006 at 1:47 PM

Murtha needs to go home and drink a nice, large, cool, glass of Metamucil to clear his thinking process. At his age, a nap might be in order too.

UnEasyRider on May 31, 2006 at 3:06 PM

And now from the “Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse” department there is a report about some Army soldiers manning a checkpoint that killed a pregnant women who was in a car speeding towrds their checkpoint.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/31/D8HUT0B81.html
Once again soldiers are put in impossible situations requiring split second lif or death decisions and there is no slo mo replay or time out to consider their options.
The bashing will continue. Personally I am fed up with it and if only the bad news can be reported then I say I hope our guys give them more news then their ink supply and tele prompters can handle.

LakeRuins on May 31, 2006 at 3:10 PM

mkstach on May 31, 2006 at 12:02 PM
I liked what you said, fairly accurate imo. Except this:
” Our side has courts martial for soldiers who break the rules. The other side has no restraint on their atrocities.”
Its not that the other side has no restraint, IT IS THEIR MAIN GOAL. To maim and kill as many innocent people as possible. They actually get some twisted martyrdom with 72 virgins by killing Americans, and all infidels.
So they complete this horrific injustice DAILY, then have celebrations! But the Murtha’s of the world ‘choose’ not to see it that way.
So we go forward w/our squirt guns and brave men & women.
. I for one will wait and pray that the real truth can come out. I hope its not too late. If a ‘few bad men’ are guilty, then they will go down. But not the whole of the Marines, and not yet.
but thanks mkstach , you wrote it kinder than I would have.

shooter on May 31, 2006 at 3:23 PM

Murtha, Murtha, Murtha..
Jack Murtha has become nothing more then a mouth piece for the Anti-War MSM running from one MSM show to another trashing the Marines and the U.S. Military as a whole. I’ve read on other forums where oneside says Murtha’s 37 years as a Marine means nothing anymore since he’s stabbed them in the back while the other side says it means everything, my opinion is he was a Marine then not now..

Until there’s been charges filed and those Marines have been convicted in a Military Court they are innocent until proven guilty no matter what Jack Murtha says..

The biggest problem in this whole mess is how fast the MSM is ready to jump on the bandwagon and label these Marines as Murderers without a single charged being filed against anyone..

As for the coverup if it’s true Military Investigators will get to the bottom of it as they will with this whole situation, the MSM is just making their job harder to get the real facts at hand, not the spin..

The BS story of wannabe Ranger Jesse Macbeth is proof all facts must be known before making any kind of statement on Guilt or Innocence..

Brah on May 31, 2006 at 3:29 PM

Michelle seems to be among the clearest thinkers on this issue. It’s very easy to identify with the soldiers’ when an IED blows up, and the citizens go mute…but not kids, Lord, please, not kids.

Jaibones on May 31, 2006 at 3:31 PM

LakeRuins, the headline reads “U.S. Troops Kill Pregnant Woman in Iraq” “Not suspected insurgents storm check point!”

So, thank you Congressmen Murtha! Like Walter Cronkite before you with his defeatist comments on the evening news, you will lose this war for us and not just two women who ignored a clear warning will die Congressmen, but the death toll will be in the MILLIONS, just like before. But then ends justify the means don’t they?

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 31, 2006 at 3:45 PM

When a sitting Senator openly and deliberately critizies our troops (who are, BTW, protecting HIS ASS!) even before the the investigation is completed. All the while saying nothing aboujt the deliberate, systematic, and planned targetting of innocent civilians (including women and children) which happens every day is nothing short of outright TREASON.

Mumra -er- Murtha should resign in shame.

CrazyFool on May 31, 2006 at 4:14 PM

I remember the ages of some of the more suicide bombers and grenade throwers, they were children. Pregnant women or those masquerading as pregnant also.

Does that excuse what happened, if it happened? No.

Does it put some context into our lives free of such harm by a few serving 9000 miles away on a hot dusty road – it does for me

EricPWJohnson on May 31, 2006 at 4:31 PM

It is always people that have never served in combat that are the first to condemn the actions of those that have. As one that has served in combat with the finest soldiers a Platoon Sergeant could ever hope for, I learned one thing. Listen to the soldier. Let them all explain, one at a time what happened. That is the only way the truth will ever be known. A leader learns that his soldiers will do what is rught if the leader expects it and serves as an example. Hve faith that the soldier will do the right thing and he will. I pray that these young mMarines will all be vindicated in the end. Unfortunately, simply becuase they have been accused of committing an atrocity, many will still doubt their innocence forever. Those of you that have never served in combat, or have never lost a soldier will never understand the pain that one endures for the rest of their life. Please stop the debate. Let the truth be discovered and told. Those that insist on finding these young marines guilty before the truth is known should be sent to experience what they have. I pray for all the troops that are serving in harms way. I regret that retired from military service and cannot be with them now. I feel their pain, I have the same nightmares. I suffer for every loss of life as if they were all my soldiers and sons. I am proud of them all. I am proud to call them my brothers in arms.

immigration inspectr on May 31, 2006 at 4:54 PM

I would like to highlight the words of immigration inspectr. During WWII, Korea, and Vietnam we had the work of S.L.A. Marshall who wrote about the combat experiences of squads or companies in combat situations. He looked at how decisions were made in the instant under fire. More recently we have Mark Bowden writing in Blackhawk Down about urban combat. After action reports from those on the ground will tell us the story of what happened. Not all of the actions may have been textbook correct. I don’t believe however that the US Marines are made up of sociopathic killers. These men and women are serving their country at great personal risk. They deserve the benefit of the doubt. If we don’t extend it to them then we don’t deserve their sacrifice.

mkstach on May 31, 2006 at 5:26 PM

Thank you Michelle. I’ve been following the coverage on your blog but it really helps to actually hear someone say it all; I think that was a very fair report, although the moonbats will call anything less than full throated agreement with Murtha’s accusations ‘cheerleading.’ It really irritates me that the same people who held up Tookie Williams as someone who ‘might not be guilty’ after he had multiple appeals that all fizzled are the ones demanding these Marines be drawn and quartered without even finishing an investigation. Is it just me, or is political point scoring starting to paralyze even our legal system?

austinnelly on May 31, 2006 at 5:35 PM

I agree with immigration inspectr.

Media blackout of this story is warranted until the FACTS have a chance to come out.
We are at war, and this WILL hurt our soldiers, regardless of the final outcome of investigation.

Pray for our brave men and women, our goals in this war, and for Murtha to get permanent laryngytis.

NTWR on May 31, 2006 at 5:36 PM

Murtha, Kerry, McCain, they are all traitors and a disgrace to the military they claim to have served and loved.

immigration inspectr on May 31, 2006 at 5:48 PM

Let us let the investigation be conducted fairly and the troops deserved to be treated fairly. Persecution of the parties involved is not only unfair, but repugnant. The marines are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Mr. Murtha, I think you owe our troop an apology.

By the way Mr. Murtha, I think you need to open your military record and show us how you got that two Purple Hearts. You really do.

Easy87us

easy87us on May 31, 2006 at 6:59 PM

If the guys are found guilty after (that’s a Big Huge AFTER Murtha!!) a thorough investigation, then they shoud be punished. However, the Insurgents and other terrorists are well known to “Stage” scenes by draging women and children’s bodies into mosques and homes to look like they were killed there.

havok on May 31, 2006 at 7:15 PM

Havok, you are right on.

Not considering these possibilities has made Murtha’s comments that much more repugnant.

Easy87us

easy87us on May 31, 2006 at 7:29 PM

THE ASSASSINS WILL INCREASE FIGHTING AND HIDING AMONG WOMEN AND CHILDREN BECAUSE THE LIBERALS HATE BUSH AND ROOT FOR OUR MILITARY TO FAIL.

Richard Davis on May 31, 2006 at 8:59 PM

I apologize if this already has been covered, but did anyone catch the CNN coverage of this last night? They showed an interview of one of the young girls from one of the homes where folks were killed, and CNN specifically noted that, in one of the 3 taped versions of the story that the girl told, she noted (and I’m loosely paraphrasing based on memory) that she had not gone to school that morning BECAUSE SHE KNEW THAT THE EXPLOSION WAS GOING TO OCCUR. I realize that is just one potential fact in the equation, but assuming the translation was correct, that’s quite a significant fact. Again, if memory serves me correctly, I think it was Wolf Blitzer who specifically commented on that wrinkle in the girl’s story (and kudos to him for doing so). But I haven’t seen that point reiterated anywhere in the MSM.

Also, great site, and great to have Allahpundit back. Still searching for Allahpundit’s archive of the Kerry election photoshop series. That was pure magic!

Bob L.

Bob L on May 31, 2006 at 9:40 PM

Dread Pirate Roberts VI: You were and are, dead right. Some of us here are not PC blind idiots.

ecamorg on May 31, 2006 at 10:15 PM

Murtha, my poor baby, we missed you at Bingo.

Come, let’s have fun as we did before you decided to be a media whore.

Ok honey?

5 PM at VA69 as usual baby. Don’t forget to bring your daubers.

Oh, Sofia says “Hi”. ;-)

Muuuuaaaaaaahhhhhh

CatholicConservative on May 31, 2006 at 11:32 PM

I tracked down the CNN story, the video of which can be found on CNN’s website entitled “Eyewitnesses describe what happened in Haditha.”

And it was not Wolf Blitzer, but rather CNN’s Ryan Chilcote.
Here is the pertintent quote to which I referred which relates to the account of 9 year old Eman Walid:

“But there is an intriguing variation in Eman’s account the third time she tells it. She says she was expecting the bomb. ‘I was planning to go to school. I was about to get out of bed. I knew the bomb would explode so I covered my ears. The bomb exploded. The bomb struck an armored vehicle. I don’t know if it was a Humvee or an armored vehicle. When the bomb exploded, they came straight to our house.’ The question is was her expectation of the explosion a premonition, a fear based on the sound of the passing convey, or was it based on some knowledge. The interviewer does not follow up and says the 9 year old got confused and got her story mixed up.”

Bob L on May 31, 2006 at 11:46 PM

Murtha is a traitor. I wrote and told him so. I smell a stinky here but my vote is out until all the evidence is in.

I still say there ought to be a hunting season for radical judges, Congress morons and anyone Liberal. Just think of the stress reliever.

Mother nature has no chance against modern medicine and it’s true, pickling works. ChappTed “I never met a drink I didn’t like” is still alive.

RolandHall on June 1, 2006 at 1:04 AM

Johm Murtha (D) Penn District 12 Representative is running for re-election this year. He has been in office for 32 years.

His Republican opponent is Diana Irey.

District 12 went 49% Bush and 51% Kerry.

There is very little information on the internet about Ireys stand on major issues such as abortion and immigration.

If she is pro-life and pro-border control I could afford and recommend a small contribution to her campaign.

It is more effective to help elect good Congressmen than to try and influence the bad ones to change.

roydee43 on June 1, 2006 at 1:21 AM

It’s established liberal protocol – guilty until proven you’re not a white male (or a Kennedy ;). If you’re a gay white male, you’re given a pardon.

hadsil on June 1, 2006 at 1:57 AM

Murtha is a MurthaFu—-
Al Gorezeera is the propaganda arm of the terrorists
Phallus-tinians are terrorists posing as civilians

MaiDee on June 1, 2006 at 6:24 AM

If this pipsqueak ‘commander in cheif’ would conduct this as a war and stop putting troops at a risk………..this would not happen.
Bomb Hidatha, level it…use your power sir.
Stop using troops as bombs.
This joke of a pres….
Reminds me of what I had to endure at lz vandigrift next to Khe Sanh.
Murtha is a traitor and should be impeached and hung!

LZVandy on June 1, 2006 at 7:08 AM

THAT’S IT! I AM NOW OFFICIALLY AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ AND I WANT ALL US SERVICE PERSONNEL OUT OF THE COUNTRY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Top U.S. General in Iraq Orders Value Training for Troops
Thursday, June 01, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq — The top U.S. general in Iraq on Thursday ordered American commanders to conduct core values training on moral and ethical standards on the battlefield.
Army Gen. George W. Casey’s order came as the U.S. military investigated whether U.S. Marines might have intentionally killed unarmed civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha on Nov. 19.

The killings, in which victims included women and children, followed a bomb attack on a military convoy that killed a Marine.

Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, commander of Multinational Corps Iraq, said in a statement the training would emphasize “professional military values and the importance of disciplined, professional conduct in combat” as well as Iraqi cultural expectations.

“As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies,” Chiarelli said. “The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many.”

The training will be conducted in units over the next 30 days and was aimed at reinforcing training service members received prior to their deployment, according to the statement.

The order was issued about a week after the U.S. Marine Commandant, Gen. Michael W. Hagee, traveled to Iraq and cautioned troops on the danger of becoming “indifferent to the loss of a human life,” following the allegations that Marines killed civilians in Haditha.

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on June 1, 2006 at 9:36 AM

As I said on the recent “Marine Interview” video story, innocent until proven guilty.

And, let’s see if it turns out that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had a hand in this incident. If so he is as brilliant, evil but brilliant, as Osama Bin Laden.

ar_basin on June 1, 2006 at 11:15 AM

Since there appears to be no escape from “Murtha the Old Marine”, not even on Memorial Day, here’s an “editorial”…….

Interesting on what’s become of Congressman Murtha, who spent less time in Vietnam than I did—although granted, he was military, unlike me, and knew how to play that old “war hero” card so very, very, very useful in U.S. politics. He’s become the Democrats’ go-to drama queen on questions of war and peace and how to attack Bush (who once snubbed him, according to reports.)

It’s the media-enabled theatrics which are so suspect. If there is a criminal case against these young Marines—and let’s assume there is, without knowing all the facts—the Marines will court martial accordingly. Everyone knows that. Murtha the Old Marine has to know that. Yet now he seems increasingly like a deranged old grizzly,improperly medicated, as he keeps chewing on that chewed-up bone (but not too deranged to enjoy the media spotlight and adulation from the grateful who wouldn’t be caught dead in the uniform of the country that fattens them.) Even on the solemn occasion of Memorial Day. To what purpose, aside from anti-Bush rage and Democrat lust to regain position and office (and avenge a perceived slight from the White House)?

Which raises the question yet again: Is today’s Libstream intelligent, or just desperate and tone deaf?
Are polls and poll shakers and $500 an hour “consultants” convincing it that Americans will react “correctly” to this orgy of American Guilt and shame about the one sector of today’s post-FDR U.S. entitlement society that truly sacrifices and understands responsibility? There used to be a time, on the other extreme, when Americans focused on the war crimes of the enemy. That ended, of course, with the Vietnam War, when the World Left turned on the U.S. which was no longer pals with the “workers’ states.”

Do the Democrats and their media really think this will play—despite Republican failings (and the DemoPub mutual surrender of the U.S. border to Mexico and the Business/Illegal Alien Lobby—presided over by George Bush, our “Texan,” i.e. our Connecticut Yankee in cowboy boots?

Do they really think that an old Murtha and his media enablers, exploiting the noble ‘Duty, Honor and Country,’ will be excused from the duty and honor of focusing on the daily unspeakable atrocities of the enemy, instead of grandstanding exclusively on what is, by most accounts, the atypical and alleged, of his own country? They gorge on aberrations (if proven) of the more disciplined sector of U.S. society. Have they no sense of shame left for what the enemy is doing to Iraqis, the daily carnage, cold, calculated, deliberate? One more question: Have they no sense of shame left about themselves?

=========================================

Gringofoto. Mekong Delta, 1973. Face to face, at last, with the Vietcong, down in that Delta, somewhere below My Tho. (Black and white original.)

Gringofoto. Mekong Delta, 1973. Face to face, at last, with the Vietcong, down in that Delta, somewhere below My Tho. (Black and white original.)

gringoman on June 1, 2006 at 11:37 AM