Weekend poll fun: RINOs abandon Bush in droves
posted at 12:50 pm on May 28, 2006 by Allahpundit
He’s lost 19 points among moderate and liberal Republicans in the last five months, and 29 points since January ’05. By contrast, only 11 and 14 percent of conservative Republicans abandoned ship during the same periods. Seems counterintuitive considering that Bush himself is a RINO in so many ways, but of course there’s a strong correlation between how far to the left or right one’s political views are and how strongly one supports the war. As things drag on in Iraq, Bush will pay a bigger price with centrists.
Danielle Pletka and Michael Rubin of AEI had an op-ed in the LA Times last week that might also partly explain the defection. According to P&R, Bush has betrayed the initial idealism of his foreign policy by buddying up to thugs like Qadaffi and Hu Jintao. Quote:
At his second inauguration, President Bush declared: “The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world.”
Since that soaring pronouncement, the Bush administration has watched Egypt abrogate elections, ignored the collapse of the so-called Cedar Revolution in Lebanon and abandoned imprisoned Chinese dissidents; now Washington is mulling a peace treaty with Stalinist North Korea.
The question is, which group would object to this more fervently: moderate/liberal Republicans, or strong conservatives? I suspect the latter, which might explain why the lion’s share of those 14 points he’s lost among hardliners disappeared so recently.
More polls? Well, Rasmussen decided to re-run the 2004 election and discovered two things. First, Kerry wins this time by seven points. And second, he’s still a terrible candidate:
President Bush is still trusted by a few more voters than Kerry on the National Security issue. However, the President’s advantage is much smaller than it was during the election season–44% now trust the President more while 41% opt for Kerry…
On immigration, 43% trust the President more while 40% prefer Kerry.
You don’t need a poll to tell you how terrible he is, though. Some of the righty blogosphere’s heaviest hitters are reacting this morning to news that Kerry wants a rematch with the Swift Vets. Captain Ed, Patterico, Tom Maguire, and Jon Henke are incredulous.
Finally, here’s a fascinating poll from Gallup about trends in public attitudes towards various moral issues. Note the numbers for capital punishment, stem-cell research, and abortion. I have no explanation, but if anyone wants to venture one, I’m all ears. Insofar as they suggest the emergence of a “party of death,” I’ll bet Ramesh Ponnuru has some theories.
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Down with this bill!!
Scrumpy on May 7, 2013 at 8:42 PM
Go Rand!
rbj on May 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM
We have to pass it to find out how many illegals can fit in it!!
SouthernGent on May 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM
Another flucking bill so all you in DC can sit around and twiddle your dang thumbs…
Use what is already here, and flucking strengthen THAT!
I wanna know what is ‘attached’ to this pile of garbage that is so important to dang well keep around…
Who’s getting some pork?!
Who’s gonna get skrewed?!
Scrumpy on May 7, 2013 at 8:45 PM
But what we have now doesn’t have Obama’s signature on it..
Electrongod on May 7, 2013 at 8:47 PM
FIFY.
xblade on May 7, 2013 at 8:47 PM
See Rand was for immigration reform. Theoretically everyone is for fixing the things that are broken. But “Comprehensive” bi partisan bills contain everything including the kitchen sink, fix nothing that was broken, and are a vehicle for democrats to hide extra spending in.
Rand has suggested one bill at a time for other things. Let him, and let Rubio send forth single issue fixes. I know it’s the senate, but with some cash paid advertising, perhaps some single issue bills can materialize. Then see if Obama will sign them. Why do they have to be full up of distractions for him to sign them, hmmmm?
I like that SG: we have to pass it to find out where the illegals are hiding in it.
Fleuries on May 7, 2013 at 8:47 PM
oh, oh….johnny mccain is getting steamed again. Quick, someone get a TV camera on johnny…lets see johnny gettin all surly and trash talkin Dr. Paul
r keller on May 7, 2013 at 8:49 PM
That’s why I won’t ever support Rand Paul for President – he’s much more losertarian than conservative.
bw222 on May 7, 2013 at 8:52 PM
1986 – “There will be NO more amnesty. We WILL secure our borders!”
Funny about that second part. Seems to have been forgotten in the rush to welcome 2 million new
citizensDemocrats at the time.History has a way of repeating itself. Only now it’s not 2 million, it’s maybe 11 million plus 22 million “relatives” back home.
GarandFan on May 7, 2013 at 8:55 PM
…enforce the fluken laws on the books now!
…reform my azz!
KOOLAID2 on May 7, 2013 at 8:58 PM
Worse than Obamacare. It won’t help a single American citizen.
WisCon on May 7, 2013 at 9:02 PM
Yeah, Rand Paul has really fizzled of late. I hope Ted Cruz doesn’t end up disappointing too.
FloatingRock on May 7, 2013 at 9:02 PM
So amnesty is a tax, right ?
burrata on May 7, 2013 at 9:07 PM
Cut him some slack. He’s trying to do the impossible (bridge the social conservatives with libertarians).
nobar on May 7, 2013 at 9:08 PM
Only for us taxpaying citizens..
Electrongod on May 7, 2013 at 9:15 PM
In its present form, there is a probability that once passed and signed, this immigration “reform” bill will end up costing over ten times what the defense budget will cost.
Priorities…
Immigration, legal immigration, is what built this country.
Illegal immigration, illegals, are a national security matter…no less.
Can we not enforce our present laws, already on the books; secure our own borders…not virtually, but in reality, where it counts; and maybe give this Republic a healthy shot at enduring?
coldwarrior on May 7, 2013 at 9:17 PM
I’m for free immigration — for amnesty. That said, ain’t going to happen.
Any Democrats pushing a bill anything close to what I want is not working for less restrictive immigration policy — they are trying to cement their base for the next election.
They know they will lose in the House, but that doesn’t bother them at all. If Mr. Obama hadn’t shot his wad on Obamacare, he’d still own the House and could pass whatever immigration bill crossed his mind. I expect that about half of the Republicans would have agreed with a stance that brings the illegals above ground into our economy — at least the ones with otherwise clean records.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/03/poll-republicans-immigration-reform.php
unclesmrgol on May 7, 2013 at 9:23 PM
Both designed by anti-American psychopaths.
VorDaj on May 7, 2013 at 9:23 PM
Since “”no one is illegal,” I will henceforth refer to them as criminal aliens. We should arrest the criminals, then deport them after their sentences are served and fines are paid.
As for guest workers, I’m all for it. Have the business file the proper paperwork, followed by importing the worker, and force the company to post a bond insuring each worker’s responsible adherence to all of our laws.
The way they are doing it is a slap in the face for all legal immigrants and a sop to their donors. All of Congress should be replaced if this passes.
The only reason we don’t already have a shooting war going on in the US, is that no one really knows whom to shoot to have any effect.
Wino on May 7, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Amigos – comrades – muchachos – friends, we are gathered here as an edifice of the great glory that is now vanishing and the intuitive feeling, based on the assumption as Mencken once said, “He who underestimates the American public will never go broke.” This is merely a small indication to behold and to perceive that which has gone way into the behind and to that which might project .. I mean go forward … out of the mouth … i mean .. the future…we’ve got to rip up the constitution so we can rip down those outdated borders! This is the main deterrent upon which we have gathered our strength and all the others who say, “What the hell did that get?” – We don’t yet know.
Clearly today we must all be aware that political expediency and latino ethnicity takes precedence over rule of law and constitutional procedure. However you say – WTF ! – what does this mean… in relation to the tabulation whereby we must once again realize that the great reconquesta story is now being rehearsed before our very eyes, in the rise of Marco Rubio… indicating that only a two-faced … I mean a bi-faced … I mean a bi-polar … I mean a bi-lingual hombre can receive…the award for reconquesta, unlike Kenyan Hussein Obama whose reconquesta plans don’t drink water.
And as Miller once said in one of his great novels- what did he … that language is only necessary when bilingual communication is endangered. And you sit there bewildered, and Pinter who went further said “It is not the lack of communication, but fear of communication.” That’s what the damn thing is that we fear – communication – especially all the Spanish communication that’s even on a box of Wheaties now. Damn it! But we have no paranoia, and through all this Senator McCain has attained, and has created for himself serenity, and it is only his insanity that has kept him alive in his senility.
Senors y Senoritas, Ladies and Gentlemen. The time will come when a first world America will outlive its usefulness. Marx, either Groucho or Karl, I can’t remember which, maybe it was both or maybe it was Harpo, once said that America is the opiate of the people. I say that when America outlives its usefulness and becomes a majority latino nation , then opium…will be the opiate…Ahh that’s not a bad idea… we are going to need that badly especially when the booze runs out …
And the completely unbiased and bi-partisan panel, has determined to give the grand prize to Marco Rubio for his EARNESTY’S RAINBOW. Now EARNESTY’S RAINBOW is a token of this man’s genius…he told me so himself and repeatedly …that he could change perceptions by calling his plan for knocking down those pesky borders EARNESTY …in other words, he could have been more specific, but rather than allude to an articulation of the mundane, he has come to the conclusion that brevity is the importance of our nation’s shallow first world existence. God damn!
Marco Rubio’s . EARNESTY’S RAINBOW – is a small contribution to a certain degree, since there are over seven billion people in the world today. 450 of them … million live in the United States and Mexico which is a very, very small amount compared to those who will be miserable and dying elsewhere…Well, I say that you will be on the road to new horizons, for we who live in a society where citizenship is a commodity and a politician can become a TV personality, it’s not easy to conform if you have any morality…I, I, I said that myself many years ago…
But I do want to thank la Raza…I mean the RNC … I mean the DNC and it’s subsidiary the RNC, the organization for the $1,000 in affirmative action latino scholarships they’ve given out…tonight they took in over $4,000,000, but they do have expenses for their consultants you know, and I think that I have another appointment. I would like to stay here, but for the sake of brevity I, I must leave. I do want to thank you, and I want to thank Marco Rubio – acting el Presidenta of la Raza Mexiamerica and also Mr. Obama – acting Phara
RasThavas on May 7, 2013 at 9:27 PM
Apparently, snowboard instructor and ski instructor are more “JOBS AMERICANS WON’T DO….here’s on item that’s in the bill
thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 9:27 PM
Critics Say Background checks provision in the bill actually PROTECTS criminal illegal aliens
thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 9:29 PM
Rubio goes FAKE MEAN
thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 9:30 PM
This much we know for sure – there will be about as much in the way of borders in RubioBorders as there is care in ObamaCare.
VorDaj on May 7, 2013 at 9:30 PM
What I noted is that Paul identified himself so pointedly as a ‘Conservative.’ He may be thinking that he is competing with Cruz for the base vote. Sometimes Libertarian, sometimes Conservative. He’s not a dumb guy (politically speaking). If this continues, maybe we’ll finally have an interesting Presidential race next time around. He’s still weak at this moment on “immigration” (i.e., citizenizing criminals).
I mean, what is there really to debate here? Build a wall (not a “fence”)and kick out all illegals. Simple. How is this a hard thing to figure out? Why are we even talking about this?
WhatSlushfund on May 7, 2013 at 9:33 PM
Study pegs cost of immigration reform bill at $6.3 trillion, critics argue that making illegals legal will generate more tax revenues and they will get better jobs
So illegals being made legal is supposed to equate to them moving up the jobs ladder and paying in more tax dollars.
Here’s the problem. 47% of all illegal aliens currently in the US don’t have a high school diploma. 48% of all immigrants legal and illegal who’ve been in the US for over twenty years are on at least one of the 83 separate means tested federal welfare programs.
Why do lawmakers suppose that those who get rewarded for breaking federal immigration law, and any other law they found inconvenient, will pay taxes?
thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 9:35 PM
Exactly. About the only thing the two share in common is a dislike of taxes. The two groups, though they are not libtards by any means, have such radically different morals, goals, and ideal Americas that I’m amazed Rand’s done as well as he has.
How appropriate for the FAKE MAN that he is.
MelonCollie on May 7, 2013 at 9:35 PM
I don’t much like libertarians either, but if the choice is Rubio or Jeb Bush or him I’m sure as hell picking Rand.
MelonCollie on May 7, 2013 at 9:37 PM
The bill isn’t a starting point – existing law is a starting point. Building a fence is a starting point.
When that’s done, come back and we’ll talk.
Midas on May 7, 2013 at 9:51 PM
Illegals, suddenly made legal, aren’t going to *pay* income taxes – they’re going to get *refunds* – earned income credits – the same bull squeeze crap that citizens today who make next to nothing get *back* without paying *in*. These people get back more than they put in, *and* they cost more in welfare/entitlements on top of that. Illegals, suddenly made legal, won’t be any different.
Midas on May 7, 2013 at 9:54 PM
Libertarians should be for reform in all areas of government, but you can’t say with a straight face that 900 pages written in secret by big labor, big business and ethnic special interests will accomplish that task.
This bill increases government control over immigration. It adds billions in new spending and hundreds, perhaps thousands of new government employees. It gives the DHS unprecedented control to interpret laws as they see fit which includes hundreds of exemptions, waivers and exceptions.
Our current situation of porous borders and lax enforcement which allows for movement of labor to fill demand is more libertarian than an increased and arbitrary quota of unskilled immigrants entering the country legally.
I agree MelonCollie. I have issues with Rand, but no way in hell I would vote for Rubio or Bush in a primary or general election.
Wigglesworth on May 7, 2013 at 9:58 PM
Some highlights from the Heritage report:
>If amnesty is enacted, the average adult unlawful immigrant would receive $592,000 more in government benefits over his lifetime than he would pay in taxes.
>The lifetime fiscal deficit of amnesty — benefits minus taxes — would be $6.3 trillion, and that’s a conservative estimate.
When those granted amnesty retire and collect Social Security, they would draw $3.00 out of the pot for every $1.00 they paid in.
>In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. That means that each illegal immigrant household today costs taxpayers $14,387 per year. Amnesty would provide unlawful households with access to over 80 means-tested welfare programs, Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare. The fiscal deficit for each household would soar.
lynncgb on May 7, 2013 at 10:19 PM
Yes. The elected elite is flunking math and history.
The new Immigration Fiasco compares to Roman Emperors paying barbarians to behave. See how that worked out in the history books.
It is the worst giveaway since Reagan’s stroke of genius but this one will make President Carter’s brilliant Panama Canal gift look like a mere Rubbermaid door prize.
Numerous ‘right wing’ or ‘conservative’ experts have attacked Heritage on their report on a methodological basis.
I bet H will strike back.
IlikedAUH2O on May 7, 2013 at 10:41 PM
This thing is not going to pass folks…
Because it is a ungodly massive thing which will become and even more ungodly massive once everybody gets their 2 cents in. We have a president who is more interested in giving speeches bemoaning that the world has not recognized that he is the greatest man ever, and has no interest in getting involved in any of this (which to border hawks is a good thing I suppose) other than give speech after speech.
In order to get it out of the senate (which right now looks like a stretch) they are going to have to lard it up with goodies and that will get it killed in the house.
If the bill was broken down into parts some of it might pass, but the Dems hate small bills because it is harder to hide all the junk they want to add, some of related to immigration and some not. Like what do you do with a gay male illegal who wants to have multiple husbands but who also wants to have abortions paid for them but can’t read any of the forms because he can’t speak or read English but…
I am only half joking on that…but this is how far this thing has gone into the weeds…:)
William Eaton on May 7, 2013 at 10:45 PM
Real political leadership is setting priorities and bills like this are the exact opposite of what is needed in a faltering economy. If the CBO says it will cost more than $1, we can’t do it.
Real leaders would be able to explain to America that we just can’t afford this, so, whatever you think about the merits of hispanic immigration, it just does not matter right now.
Same thing with gay marriage and gun-control: not important.
Rand Paul would be better served working on bigger ideas, rather than commenting on “what’s for breakfast” in DC.
virgo on May 8, 2013 at 2:07 AM
The terrorist attack in Boston should have killed immigration reform by now.
monalisa on May 8, 2013 at 7:37 AM
It’s even worse than ObamaCare. At least if we elect some Republicans with spines, we can repeal ObamaCare and start over. However, once you give Amnesty to millions of illegals, there’s no going back.
MPan on May 8, 2013 at 7:38 AM
More light on it Rand!!
RealMc on May 8, 2013 at 7:40 AM
That’s why just about everyone here, with good reason, threw Rubio over the edge when he went full-bore shamnesty and will do the same to Rand if he does the same. The Dems get another ten million Democrat voting illegals on the rolls, each with 4-6 bambinos each who will all grow up to vote Democrat, and they win the final battle.
MelonCollie on May 8, 2013 at 12:27 PM