Have 9/11 conspiracy theories gone mainstream?

posted at 11:01 am on May 28, 2006 by Allahpundit

And if so, (a) why and (b) why now? I put those questions to Pat and James of Screw Loose Change in a post on Friday, and both have responded. They make some trenchant points; go ye and read of them and feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below. Or, if you’ve got your own blog, address it there and send me the link and I’ll add it here.

The title of this post is a rhetorical question, by the way. As Raw Story said of that recent Zogby poll,

When asked specificially if they thought there had been a government coverup of evidence that contradicts the official story, the results were again not far from an even split, with 48% rejecting the idea of a deliberate coverup and 42% supporting it. Belief in a coverup was the majority position among Democrats, 18-29 year olds, and a few other groups.

Update: FYI, Loose Change has slipped out of the top ten on Google Video. Finally.

Update: Well, well. Jules and Gedeon Naudet, the French documentarians responsible for so much incredible footage shot on 9/11, are threatening to sue Loose Change for copyright infringement. I wonder if this is strictly business or if they’re going after LC because they object to their film being used to promote this agenda. Stay tuned.


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This is another battle front the liberals started with the purpose of drawing down the conservatives and making us fatique.

They always look for falsehoods and lies that we cannot prove and spread them like wild fires.

The only truth I know about 9/11 is that Bin Laden has admitted to have planned it, executed it, and bragged about it.

And that is enough.

Easy87us

easy87us on May 28, 2006 at 11:28 AM

I think we need to define “conspiracy” here, and that the lack of clear definition is fertile ground for the fertile minds that tend toward such theories.

Zogby asks if there was a “coverup of evidence that cotradicts the official story”. I’d be inclined to say yes to that myself. After all, I’m still not sure what Sandy Burglar felt the need to remove from the National Archive or why. I also know that he got a slap on the wrist for it, and there was never much disclosure. I think the odds are quite low that the Commission got every detail exactly right, and extremely high that this is because someone buried some fact in an attempt to CYA. A million facts play into the overall “official story”. I highly doubt that they’re all correct, though I suspect the great majority of them are.

On the other hand, I’m fully convinced that the MIHOP/LIHOP crowd is off it’s collective rocker. I hope that a significant portion of the 42% is closer to my position than to the moonbats’.

Pablo on May 28, 2006 at 11:38 AM

BTW, what’s up with their site?

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Happy Memorial Day from the Naudet Brothers, indeed! Looks like they’re speaking truth to pirates.

Pablo on May 28, 2006 at 11:46 AM

The only conspiracy here is the conspiracy of liberals living on the dark side of the universe who spend their waking moments conspiring how to best conspire.

“What did Bush know, and when did he know it?” (Bush planned it!)

“Why did Israel warn Jewish Americans not to go to work that day?” (The Jews planned it!)

“Why did more black Americans die than Whites?” (White supremacist groups planned it!)

“Many of the people killed in the World Trade Center attacks were ”technocrats and little Eichmans!” (The Nutty University of Colorado Professor, Ward Moonbat Churchill said this.) And no, this is not libelous, slanderous or defamatory because Churchill, by his hand (and MOUTH!), has become a “public figure.”

And they wonder why we call them “the looney left?”

ForYourEdification on May 28, 2006 at 12:16 PM

On the topic of a cover up I just have 2 things to add.

1) The Gorlick Wall

2) Able Danger

Neither of these 2 items have been properly addressed IMO, so I would have voted in favor of the notion of there being an active cover up.

DannoJyd on May 28, 2006 at 12:25 PM

Why has 9-11 Conspiracies gone mainstream?

SOME IDEAS
1. Natural progression of Bush Hatred
2. (similar to 1) trying to get Bush at all costs
3. Desire to blame someone other then the Arabs (either to deflect blame or because blaming them smacks of Orientalism)
4. Need something new to talk about as Bush-Haliburton-War for Oil is getting old and even some LLL don’t believe this Bush-Nazi party connection
5. Is this what the politburo believed in to begin with but had to slowly push into their party members minds?

Defector01 on May 28, 2006 at 12:35 PM

Why O Why do they persist?
I believe that in no small part, the psychological health of many Americans is in danger. No great onslaught to the shrinks office as of yet, but a divisive nature is taking hold. If you look at the difference in the last 4 decades of family values then to now, you see a weakening of core truths and values.
Honesty, responsibility, integrity as a way of life, and personal character building as something to be desired used to be worth striving for.
These were the most important things in ones life, along with a spiritual path to follow to achieve these desirable traits. Now through endless left wing educational practices and a false ‘inner-power’ feeling by knocking other persons or groups down a few pegs, these above values have taken a back seat. It seems easier, to some, to rise up by protesting and spewing venom to get attention and thus make oneself feel good. This fallacy does have immediate results for the ill-minded. An ego that divisive is one that also does not want to be quieted, so they endure. Never really finding what they seek, so they just get louder and find more weak minded followers.
Like a cancer, it grows and metastasizes to the point that only an act of providence might quash it.
Do I have a real solution? Not really. Am I correct without doubt? No. But I am pretty sure raising our kids with real values and core beliefs is an absolute necessity for any hope of a sane future.

shooter on May 28, 2006 at 12:46 PM

Easy87us said:This is another battle front the liberals started with the purpose of drawing down the conservatives and making us fatique.

Easy, it is so funny you said that because just yesterday, I was thinking how hard it is to be conservative. Not to follow your beliefs, thats easy to do.
Being liberal/left/democrat is easy. You get to say any stupid thing you want, facts dont mean anything.
You get to do as many drugs as you want and it only enhances your beliefs.
The MSM is mainly liberal, they have the tv, newspapers, and most of their views see the light of day, while ‘our’ point of view is only represented mainly by Radio and The Web.
It is VERY exhausting and VERY frustrating to see every moonbat idea getting spread everywhere.
Somedays I just want to sit on the couch, spark a ‘doob’, flip on Olberman and get stupid. Then I remember I am not fighting alone. There are others like me, thats why I had to respond to what Easy said. Thanks Easy, and keep up the fight!

PHKing on May 28, 2006 at 1:07 PM

DannoJyd, Able Danger is a perfect example.

Pablo on May 28, 2006 at 1:15 PM

I wonder if this is strictly business or if they’re going after LC because they object to their film being used to promote this agenda. Stay tuned.

It sounds as if they’re not pleased with their footage being used to promote the LC version of events. The letter seems dismissive of the LC viewpoint. And unlike Dylan Avery, the Naudet brothers were there. They watched what happened. They know.

So, how long will it take for the CT crowd to suggest that the Naudets are in on the conspiracy?

Pablo on May 28, 2006 at 1:30 PM

No big mystery about Liberals buying into WHACKO 9-11 conspiracy theories to the readers of the DUmmie FUnnies. Here is just ONE

pjcomix on May 28, 2006 at 4:40 PM

Oops! Second time that happened with the result of a premature posting. Anyway here is just ONE of MANY DUmmie FUnnies threads on the subject of Liberals buying into WHACKO 9-11 conspiracy theories:

http://dummiefunnies.blogspot.com/2006/04/left-establishments-attack-on-911.html

pjcomix on May 28, 2006 at 4:41 PM

I relate with Shooter. I find myself continuously digging in the web to put together something that makes sense, instead of the drivel in the mainstream newspapers and on TV. When you put it together it is scary and is a call to action. But I can’t seem to find people around me with a similar sense of urgency. I am truly worried not only about the world my children will grow up to, but the effect of the dishonesty, spin, and rejection of truth in favor of advancement of political agenda.

And the agenda is scary: deny anything based on morals, values, character. Destroy any good works that are being done lest they make conservatives look good.

Our unity and betterment as a country should be a higher priority than winning ideological battles. A sports team fighting like we do, an army, a family, or a company would all fall apart. We as a nation are destined to fall apart as well if we don’t start working together.

CountryDoc on May 29, 2006 at 12:01 AM

There are legit questions about 9/11 that need answered……

That doesn’t make a person a loon, nor a lefty, it just means what it means.

:/

VonHelton on May 29, 2006 at 9:56 AM

Too much is terribly wrong, with a distinct money trail – a lot of money. This time, it’s ‘different.’ In the dust of the money trail, America is witnessing a methodical bankruptcy, as well. Jobs and production are being exported at record rates. The Mexican border is forced open and kept wide open from Washington. Huge sums of money are pledged to foreign countries, as our military in the combat zones are facing a pay cut. The U.S. Constitution is almost gone, while the U.S. Attorney General – sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution – tours the states, insisting on increasing Gestapo powers.

As to the criminal deeds behind 9-11; just ask a government agency – “It’s a SECRET!”

http://home.comcast.net/~skydrifter/collapse.htm

:/

VonHelton on May 29, 2006 at 11:39 AM

We’ve let treason go mainstream, why not everything else?

Halley on May 29, 2006 at 12:31 PM

Belief in a coverup was the majority position among Democrats, 18-29 year olds, and a few other groups.

I know all about that first-hand. Until not too long ago I worked in a place where I was more or less surrounded by Democrats. One of my co-workers was well-connected in state Dem politics–still is, actually. Well, shortly before the 2004 election, this fine individual with all the political connections chose to send out an email that on the surface seemed innocent enough but contained a link that went to a 9-11 conspiracy theory web site. The site tried to “prove” that the Pentagon was hit by a missile rather than a plane, and that the Bush admin was probably behind the whole thing. It was a despicable site run by despicable people, and my co-worker was sending it around in an effort to drum up a vote or two for her boy John Kerry, whose public position on 9-11 did not square with the contents of that web site. But his supporters, like my co-worker? They would rather believe some half-baked nonsense than understand and deal with the world as it is–dangerous and in need of American leadership, the kind of leadership leftists such as herself are completely incapable of providing.

Bryan on May 29, 2006 at 9:25 PM

I have a lot of unanswered questions:

1. Why did the Pentagon release a series of still photos, rather than a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon?
2. Why was the flame white, like a missile, instead of orange, like the planes hitting the towers?
3. Why was there a military exercise of a terrorist attack of planes hitting buildings on the day it happened?
4. Why did the airlines and NORAD all call in late?
5. Why did jets close by not get called to intercept instead of ones very far away?
6. Why did they wait so long to call any intercept?
7. Why were all of the other tapes not released that would have definitely put to rest whether a plane hit the building or not?
8. Why is there debris of the flight that crashed in a PA field of over a mile?
9. How did the plane nose penetrate 3 buildings deep at the Pentagon, yet it, the rest of the plane and all baggage and bodies disintegrated without even close windows being broken?
10. How did the lawn stay so pristine?
11. How coincidental is it that the terrorists hit the one spot at the Pentagon that was being built, reinforced against attack, with the least amount of people present?
12. How does the worst pilot, of the terrorists, not be able to pass a test to rent a Cessna, accomplish the feat reported at the Pentagon?
13. How did these planes drop from radar for so long and never get intercepted and nobody notified?
14. Why did Bush just sit there with school kids when told our nation was being attacked?
15. Why was he never whisked away? Where was the concern for his and the children’s safety when everyone on the planet knew where he was?
16. How do 2 large towers, built to withstand the very thing that [reportedly] brought them down, fall after just a short time when other building in the past have burned for days without falling?
17. How did one building fall that was never hit and had a small fire?
18. Why did the lessee say in an interview, “I told them to pull it”?
19. Why was the entire complex leased just months before the attack?
20. Why was Silverstein trying to get so much insurance on it before settling for 3.5b?
21. Why did the courts rule that he should get even more?
22. Why was there never an investigation at ground zero?
23. Why was the metal [reportedly] scrapped and sold so quickly to foreign governments which could have provided a lot of evidence as to the cause for the building to fall?
24. Why was the only person, who made 2 calls, from a cell phone, on the plane that hit the Pentagon, the wife of a government official?
25. Why did the government say they had never considered someone would hijack a plane and use it as a weapon with it’s happened in our past, I believe in the 70s when hijackers threatened to fly the plane into a nuclear plant, they have had discussed it years earlier and the military was conducting an exercise on that scenario the very day?

I don’t buy a handful of wanted men traveled in and out of this country, at will, without being taken into custody and with a few box cutters had a 75% success rate of reaching their targets, without interception against the only military super power on the planet.

I don’t buy the usual “national security” BS line given out for anything the government wants to hide from the owners of this country. I’m tired of being treated like a mushroom and I want some answers. Why must it be a secret?

I’m not a Darwinian. I don’t believe in THAT much happening by chance. I don’t claim to have answers but I do have a lot of questions.

Do I think there are those that would welcome an attack on this nation so we could go to war to further an agenda? Sure, I believe there are those that would be motivated by greed to do just that.

When things are not as they should be, they are as they shouldn’t be. Why is nobody answering the questions that need to be answered? Why is Bush so radically opposed to securing the border?

I don’t know who to focus on but it appears we’re looking for a reason to attack Iran and what better way than in retaliation to an attack by them on us? It would be the only way Bush would get the American public and Congress to fund an attack on Iran.

I pray every day that my questions have some logical answer and my worries are without merit. I really don’t want to be right considering I live on the front line if we’re attacked from someone entering through the southern border. I’m tired of feeling helpless and watching every day our Congress and our President violate their oath of office.

The steel melted? Why didn’t the woman?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/170105womanwaving.htm

A conspiracy is as simple as two or more people discussing to commit a crime. 19 alleged hijackers is a conspiracy. I don’t have any theories but I do have many questions. Unlike some who are just willing to believe anything, I feel they’re either in denial or sheeple. You know when something is not right even if you don’t have the answer.

RolandHall on May 30, 2006 at 5:13 AM

I am tired of this site losing my posts. Some posts just mysteriously disappear, like the last one that took me a long time to write. Unfortunately I didn’t copy the text before posting and it, like others, mysteriously disappeared. This one will obviously go thru. Is there some kind of filter that blocks some?

RolandHall on May 30, 2006 at 5:16 AM

Hey Roland Hall, I got bored with your post about three quarters of the way through your list of “questions”, and needed to reply to that before I would even bother reading the rest (not to mention that the second you post a link to an Alex Jones site, you’ve lost a lot of people).

Anyway, in response to your “questions”, I have a question: Have you sought the answers to those questions?

I first ran across one of these conspiracy videos that are very cleverly done and do draw you in with all the crazy music and fast flashing of images… but by the following day common sense took over and I realied that such a conspiracy would have to have taken thousands, if not tens of thousands, of people to be carried out. It’s just ridiculous…. The cell phone calls and eye witness accounts would have to be fake, the security video at the airports would have to be fake so all these airport security people are in on it, etc. etc. I don’t even want to start listing off all the people and groups who would have to have been involved because it’s pointless, I think you get it. It just simply couldn’t have been pulled off by Cheney and Rumself with a remote control.

Anyway, this led me to wonder how that could fit when this “convincing” video was out there… So I did a few searches and found there is plenty out there debunking all of this bologna. I’ll start you off with a thorough debunking of the Pentagon portion of the conspiracy theories… you can do your own homework on the rest. But your questions suggest you don’t want to because they are ripped right from the most insane conspiracy theorists lips. Here’s the link:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

Oh and by the way, how did the evil illuminati Bush family execute such an elaborate conspiracy and forget to make the WTC collapse look “more natural” so that “experts” would come say “hey that was a planned demolition!”… Yeah, they got thousands of people involved in the biggest conspiracy the world has every seen, but didn’t think when they rigged the WTC that anyone would notice it would look like a controlled demolition… right.

RightWinged on May 30, 2006 at 10:01 PM

I was in college while The X-Files was red hot. One could argue the show’s popularity derived from an audience already primed for story-telling of that nature. Regardless, I believe that show profoundly affected the American psyche, particularly the “gen-X’ers”.

For years, fans of the show willingly engaged in the suspension of disbelief that the governments of the world conspired to hide the existence of extra-terrestrials from us. It was fun, the threat wasn’t real, it made for great story-telling. To my knowledge, there hadn’t ever been a government-conspiracy-themed show or story with such widespread appeal.

I think that show left such a profound mark on some “gen-X’ers” that it will shape the way they think of government and external threats for the rest of their lives. Too much Moulder in them, not enough Scully. An inability to separate fact from fantasy.

papermelech on May 30, 2006 at 10:18 PM

RightWinged…

Here’s another one you cannot read all the way through yet feel capable of refuting.

Thanks for the personal attack you started off with in your response. What a skilled debater you are to use such tactics. Also, you completely responded to something I didn’t say. I have questions, not answers and yet reading your response, I blame lil ole George. Anyone who refuses to use proper English could never have devised such a plan. His plan would be to shoot down the planes and thus reinforce his view of why we need to attack Iraq because they’re such a threat. Isn’t he the one that also coined the phrase, “religion peace?”

I have done as much investigation as I can possibly do with my limited access. That doesn’t explain why there is so much secrecy. I never pointed fingers at Bush and Co for doing it. I raised questions because, whether these were reported on some site I saw that you don’t like or not, I’m posting how I feel based on what I witnessed and MY investigations, not just reports of others. I don’t completely agree with anyone on any part but there is more wrong than right with the information we’re given.

I watched this damn thing happen and it pisses me off. Bush pisses me off. Give me one fricken answer why he REFUSES to protect the border and why he YELLS at the American people on TV that this country is a nation of immigrants, which it isn’t!!! It makes believing anything else he is saying or ever has said suspect.

I’m a Conservative and I voted for this lone nut job twice, but on the 2nd time because he said, “NO AMNESTY!” He’s a damn liar!

This site you referenced has a lot of dead links. Even though he makes a good argument, I guess I’ll have to believe my lying eyes. If a hurricane of roughly 140mph can penetrate concrete with a pine picket fence post, then I’m sure a 757 with 124′ wing span, traveling between 350 – 500mph can at least break a few windows or at least make a mark on the outside rather than just make a hole roughly 20′ in diameter. It doesn’t work for me but the physical plane crashes are not the parts that worry me the most. The insurance issue for Silverstein, the court awarding him more for building #7, the recent “whole complex” rental, the known/wanted terrorists flying in and out of the country unopposed, the lie after lie about never envisioning this could happen, the “we were in the dark” contrary to so many countries telling them something was coming, the stalling at the school after being told we were under attack for what, almost 20 minutes and after being told we’re under attack the Secret Service does nothing to protect the President when it’s publicly known where he is. There are just too many things that don’t add up and the Pentagon keeping the other videos from view which could answer the “plane/missile/non-757 plane” question makes no sense and has nothing to do with national security.

This site would be a better argument for you: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

However, they only cover plane wreckage. Amazingly the 2 towers can fall within minutes because of jet fuel but the Pentagon has relatively small amount of comparable damage. The plant impacted the building inches from the ground, on the only section that has been reinforced, without the 124′ wing span hitting the ground, by someone who couldn’t pass a flying test in a Cessna, 3 times, who flew without interception and found his target in an area that should be one of the most fortified in the air and the result was a 16′ – 20′ hole and some fire damage. Amazing. Perhaps Allah [piss be upon him] flew it for him?!

RolandHall on June 1, 2006 at 3:24 AM

I think I watched 10 minutes of one episode of the x-files before deciding it was not worth my time.

RolandHall on June 1, 2006 at 3:26 AM

Thanks for the personal attack you started off with in your response. What a skilled debater you are to use such tactics.

Not sure where I personally attacked you, but whatever man… I stand by my comment that you’ve chosen not to do your own research or you’d realize that most (if not all) of your “questions” have been fully answered. I don’t deny that there has been a lot of secrecy, but that hardly makes a case for a conspiracy. As I said, your questions are ripped right from nutjobs like Alex Jones (you provided the PrisonPlanet link making it all the more obvious), and show a shocking amount of laziness on your part. I think we’re done here because I don’t see any sense in wasting time on someone who refuses to use a search engine on their own…. I’ll just say that you should watch Loose Change along with this viewers guide to see how you’ve been mislead.
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

The Loose Change vid is very Michael Mooresque.

As for the Popular Mechanics piece, I tend not to use it because anyone who still has “questions”/conspiracy theorists shout “The lead researcher Ben Chertoff is Michael Chertoff’s nephew (or cousin, or whatever)”, despite not having a shred of evidence to ever support that. You can take or leave that thorough debunking of the Pentagon CTs, but it leaves no doubt about what happened there.

RightWinged on June 2, 2006 at 3:18 AM