Teddy: no fences — they’re too effective (Update: Senate approves fence)

posted at 2:29 pm on May 17, 2006 by Allahpundit

This thing with Patches must really be messing with his head. Two days ago he was complaining about the House’s attempt to criminalize criminals; today he’s trying to shoot down Sessions’s fence amendment by pointing out how effective fences have been in California. But there’s a body count involved, which naturally means (a) it’s our fault, and (b) fences should be off the table. Political Pit Bull has video. Go, watch, laugh, and try to follow his logic when he comes out strongly in favor of a virtual fence — which, if it turns out to be a successful deterrent, logically should result in just as many immigrant deaths as the non-virtual version.

El presidente is heading down to the Arizona border manana for the all-important photo op. The as-yet unindicted Karl Rove is headed to the Hill to try to whip the House hardliners into line. Meanwhile, the French legislature is showing more backbone than our own. Quel dommage.

Update: Stop the ACLU sends word that the Senate has approved 370 miles of triple-layered fence. Vote: 83-16. Follow the link for whining from Dick Durbin.

Update: The boss says this is nice and all — but what did we have to give up to get it?

Update: Which side of the debate, do you suppose, is the AP on?


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Comments

Fences most certainly ARE useful.

Just imagine what a FENCE around Chappaquiddick could have done. (Like save a young girl’s life and protect her from the likes of Kennedy!)

ForYourEdification on May 17, 2006 at 2:40 PM

They sure like that virtual wall. Why do I always think of the Emperor’s new clothes when it is mentioned?

fluffy on May 17, 2006 at 2:41 PM

After the next terror attack in this country, when we find that all of the terrorists walked across the Mexican border, every politician, including Bush, who has fought to keep the border open should be rounded up and dealt with in the appropriate way. Charged with aiding our enemy, convicted, and dangled from the end of a rope. Why these politicians feel it’s OK to play russian roulette with our lives is beyond me.

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 2:42 PM

I hope he came out against barriers as well.

a4g on May 17, 2006 at 2:49 PM

Rest assured that no virtual fence ever stopped a car thief, drug runner, wife beater, rapist, murderer, drunken diver (Patches can relate I’m sure) etc. And there are certainly many of these among the criminals crossing our borders on a daily basis! However, they can all certainly swim as well if not better than Daddy! (Is that insensitive? I mean, implying that some of these criminal invaders can swim.)

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 17, 2006 at 2:56 PM

The French Legslature is showing more backbone than our own! Time to get out the bottle of Old Grand Dad again. Now I know I need A drink maybe two.

birdman on May 17, 2006 at 3:11 PM

I lived in Mass for a while…Sorry about that. T Kennedy is and was an ass then and now. I am so sorry for the people of Mass.,, that have not been able to see this F*t A*s for what he is. I really begin to wonder about the protein they eat there. Fish is supposed to be a brain food. They must be eating taco’s. (sorry about that) but really,,how can they with any self respect as a state, continue to send this jerk to Washington?????

Bob67 on May 17, 2006 at 3:14 PM

FOX news is posting that the Senate approved building a 350 mile fence. Ok now what about the other 86% of the border? Do we have to build that ourselves?

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 17, 2006 at 3:25 PM

Dread Pirate Roberts

They are doing the bare minimum, as little as possible. But they want to show all of us racist, extremist right wing cooks that they’re doing something about the problem. Yep, they are really really crackin down on this issue. If I was a wetback, Id be sooooo scared right now!

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 3:29 PM

What will the senate do next? Take away their bottled water at rest stations along the border and replace it with tap water? Ouch!!!

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 3:31 PM

The rest of the fence can be made with illegals caught here, stood in a line on the border, chained together, and fed turkey dogs for six months without a break. Oh, wait, they might like it.

clyde on May 17, 2006 at 3:34 PM

Eddie Kennedy (D-UI) will visit this wall and say:

-“Ich bin Ein Wetback”

right ascension on May 17, 2006 at 3:37 PM

FOX news is posting that the Senate approved building a 350 mile fence. Ok now what about the other 86% of the border? Do we have to build that ourselves?

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 17, 2006 at 3:25 PM

I bet that it will be the prettiest little white picket fence ever made.
Of course most of the money will go toward the beautiful landscaping on both sides.

Kramer on May 17, 2006 at 3:37 PM

Time to take away their “FUD”

Kramer on May 17, 2006 at 3:39 PM

Did anyone catch Julie Myers’ comments on Hewitt’s RadioBlogger? She’s also talking “virtual fence.” Since she’s in the DHS and represents the Bush administration, I’d say that Bush and Senator Fabulous here are virtually saying the same thing.

beatcanvas on May 17, 2006 at 3:39 PM

Sorry forgot about the 500 miles of vehicle barrier! Can someone tell me what in heavent’s name is a vehicle barrier going to look like? Are millions of criminals just driving across the border?

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 17, 2006 at 3:42 PM

Someone should virtually kick her Ace.

Kramer on May 17, 2006 at 3:42 PM

No wonder Admiral Kerry got the senate to approve 250 BOATS!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on May 17, 2006 at 3:43 PM

Yes sir,
Many of these criminals just pack up there ’84 Ford Clunkers and head on up.
There are so many Mexican Car Tags at my place of employment I can’t count.
Yep, see ’em everywhere in Texas.

Kramer on May 17, 2006 at 3:45 PM

They sure do love the handouts.

Kramer on May 17, 2006 at 3:45 PM

Communism has failed in the Western World – and it’s becoming clearer with each passing year that Socialism only exists because it rides on the coat-tails of American capitalism’s success.

It’s no wonder he’s against a fence. A massive influx of socialists from Mexico hell bent on income redistribution is a dinosaur like Ted Kennedy’s last and only hope.

venmax on May 17, 2006 at 3:47 PM

A virtual fence will only provide detection and will not keep trespassers from entering the U.S. illegally if there are no resources to apprehend them. A physical barrier plus detection methods would be required to be effective. This is a basic feature of any security approach.

Eventually the Canadian border should receive a similar treatment.

NIMBY on May 17, 2006 at 3:53 PM

From Fox News: “Indonesia — Mount Merapi shot a large cloud of searing hot ash and gas into the sky Wednesday”

From the Hill: “Washington D.C. — Mount Kennedy shot a large burst of searing hot air and gas into the Senate chambers Wednesday”

Bellicose Muse on May 17, 2006 at 4:09 PM

Dread Pirate,
I believe that these “vehicle barriers” may be those long concrete walls that are about 2.5 feet high, like what is used to divide highways.

Like you, I also wonder just how many are firing up their SUV’s and driving cross desert. Is this really going to have much effect?

Once again, the Senate has declared an early winner in the “symbolism over substance” bout.

SteveD on May 17, 2006 at 4:19 PM

Drop by the Kennedy Compound in Hyannis some day. It is surrounded by a 12 +/- foot wall with ivy growing over it. So Kennedy doesn’t like fences and walls, eh?

Of course, he did try the pick up line in a bar the other day. Hey, honey. What do you say we go back to my place and I’ll use one of those virtual condoms?

pistolero on May 17, 2006 at 4:21 PM

At least they’re going to build a real fence in some areas
that’s a step in hte right direction

Defector01 on May 17, 2006 at 4:22 PM

Sorry AP, I can find nothing to laugh about concerning this whole illegal alien fiasco.

Where is a sirhan or Oswald when he’s needed?

This moron has don nothing but harm the country since he was voted in and he’ll do nothing but harm the country until he’s kicked out on his double-wide keister.

After the Farmers’ Assoc meeting last night I can tell all of you that tempers are starting to wear thin in this small community. If somthing isn’t done soon about this whole illegal alien affair things may well come to a head and end in violence.

Duty, Honor, Country
(in THAT order)
Rowane

Rowane on May 17, 2006 at 4:22 PM

I really hope Teddy Kennedy loses Senate race this coming November. I just can’t wait to see this moonbat gone from the Senate. It would be such a relief!

zack on May 17, 2006 at 4:35 PM

I can’t claim credit for the original… but this is too appropos to not share…

Tar, feathers, rail, RINO. Some assembly required.

RH

RobertHuntingdon on May 17, 2006 at 4:42 PM

No need to incite violence against our leaders, here in Pennsylvania we just bided our time and sent a message loud and clear to the ballot box. Last year a number of judges got the boot and this year a bunch of the career politicians followed.

Just remind your leaders that you are watching and have a long memory and expect them to do their civic duties. Mid-term oustings are also an option to explore.

NIMBY on May 17, 2006 at 4:44 PM

Make the illegals build the fence! I don’t want to pay for it. Catch, build, then release over the other side of the fence…

NTWR on May 17, 2006 at 4:53 PM

Oh by the way, we have a lot of those vehicle fences over here in Kalifornia. They consist of 2 or 3″ diameter steel pipes that are welded horizontally to uprights about 12-24″ tall. They make it so we can’t go destroy “sensitive habitats” where snails, lizards, or ants might live by driving 4 wheelers around.

I think a sawsall would render it useless.

NTWR on May 17, 2006 at 4:59 PM

Well I think most people who see that would realize it’s a joke. Those few who don’t… well, that’s what we have capitol security forces for.

One can be angry without acting on it. Just the fact that you are angry enough to even think of such an idea will get the attention of any legislator worth keeping around.

RH

RobertHuntingdon on May 17, 2006 at 5:00 PM

I don’t believe anyone should be calling for acts of violence against a politician. At least not yet. But I do believe in the lawful punishment of our leaders. Open borders politicians should be charged with aiding our enemies, convicted and strung up. That’s the way we traditionally and legally deal with traitors like Bush, Kennedy, Frist and my pathetic lying sanator Salazar.

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 5:18 PM

msplitt,

You can add McCain and Hagel to that list. Martinez, too.

jaleach on May 17, 2006 at 5:23 PM

Title 8 Chapter 12 Subchapter II Part VIII @1324

§ 1324. Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

(a) Criminal penalties
(1)
(A) Any person who—

(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts, shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).

(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;

(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;

Pretty clear to me that under this statute, you can make a case that both the Senate, and the President are ENCOURAGING more illegal immigration, by talking about amnesty. More illegals are crossing the border today because they believe they will get to stay…..

Soooo… the question is “Are they getting camapign contributions from any of them” because that is a financial profit, thus making it 10 years vice 5 years in the pen…

Also, since this IS a felony, it sounds like impeachable offences to me…

Any good Lawyers out there?

Romeo13 on May 17, 2006 at 5:27 PM

Shoot, we’ve got more effective border control over our border with Iowa. Don’t ever again want to see them Iowegians coming north again just to steal our good jobs; darned corn farmers!

I don’t really have a point anymore and wonder how in tarnation this nation got to this point. If WWII were to come back we’d have to surrender immediately before the carnage got to be too bad. Seriously, why bother anymore to do anything positive here, just let the new owners try to fix the cars, waterworks, sewers, powerplants, etc… Nothing will work and then they will meander back down south where at least they could survive the winters!

Time for coffee and a daily dose of energy and/or moral courage pills.

DougW on May 17, 2006 at 5:33 PM

Romeo13

Effin great call! It’s not a lawyer we need. It’s a local prosecutor with some stones willing to file the charges. I bet we could find one to make the case.

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 5:51 PM

We spend so much time talking about the economic impact of the illegal immigration problem, and it is indeed bad – like a nasty parasitic infection. But the fatal poisoning of our country is the forced ingestion of marxist, socialist, collectivist allegiants that’ll occur when the ‘freeway to citizenship’ opens for business. This is what makes me fear for my child!

The Ritz on May 17, 2006 at 6:04 PM

I bet Teddy Kennedy doesn’t have a “virtual” fence around his compound!!

gary on May 17, 2006 at 6:11 PM

The Ritz

I fear terrorism the most of all. I could care less what lettuce costs. If I was al-queda, I would have 10 terror cells of 4 men each cross the border. Send each cell out to a middle school in different towns, all at the same time. Massacre as many children as possible, then set off a suicide belt when your done. My guess is they would kill 2,000 kids in one morning. The absolute horror and fear would make what happened at that Russian school look like childs play.

It’s gonna happen, just when and where we don’t know. Then what will the criminal in the oval office say about a fence?

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 6:15 PM

What does our leaders care? They are safe. When it comes down to it all they really care about is money and votes. We are nothing to them, sure they talk alot of talk but that means little to nothing. Isn’t there a election going on in Mexico soon? Could this all somehow be related? Seems odd to me. Has Bush been taken over by a Doppleganger? lol

SugarnSpice on May 17, 2006 at 6:28 PM

msplitt

You’re right,cross-border terrorism is an imminent threat – something I thought the President told us he would always respond to.

But the toxin that will kill our country from the inside is the extreme leftists who are threatening to pour over the border and hijack our voting booths. If anything near the reported number of immigrants will be allowed in under this ‘immigration reform’ they’ll quickly have the power to overcome the common sense conservative movement that’s been ascendant over the last 30-40 years. We’ll have tens of millions of new Ward Churchills to help us redefine the character of our constitutional republic. And they’ll be only too happy to do it.

The Ritz on May 17, 2006 at 6:30 PM

If walls and fences didn’t work, the Israelis wouldn’t have put one up. When it comes to security, we should follow their lead. If we had real leaders we would.

I guess the usual suspects (Voinovich, Chaffee, Snow, Collins, and about 14 other RINO’s) sided with the Dems on a border related amendment yesterday…. we must find a way to cull them from the herd.

right as rain man on May 17, 2006 at 6:39 PM

Yep. I think we all agree that this border mess can destroy this country in so many ways, and these politicians could give a s***. Maybe it’s time to re-think my policy on not violence against out politicians.

But romeo had a good point. Find lets use the courts for OUR advantage for once! See if politicians and activist groups can be charged under current law, aiding illegal aliens.

A) Any person who—

(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts, shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).

(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;

(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;

Also, banks who loan money to illegals could be charged.

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 6:41 PM

I hear you!

*hmm, why does that phrase ring a bell? Somebody long ago and far away said something about hearing us and making sure those who threaten us hear us as well*

Anyway, I hope there’s enough passion over this issue for us conservatives to thoroughly thrash our representatives into shape at the next election. I’ve got Sen. Lindsey McCain-Graham to deal with in my home state. If we don’t I’m really beginning to believe it’ll be our death knell.

The Ritz on May 17, 2006 at 6:51 PM

Well “the Ritz”, I’ve got you beat. I’ve got crying George Voinovich to deal with. The consumate RINO. I’ve sent e-mails up the ying-yang and received nothing more than acknowledgements of receiving the damn e-mails. They don’t listen. Guys like Voinovich and Graham (who I recall liking during the Clinton impeachment era) think their “moderate” demeanor and “reaching out” to their beloved friends on the other side of the aisle somehow makes them great statesmen, plus getting invited to parties. With six year terms, these guys are hard to kick out!!

right as rain man on May 17, 2006 at 7:07 PM

There is nothing that can, or will be done. Any white, or Christian, or American that takes any real ACTION whatsoever will be crushed.

Nothing short of total violent revolution will save our culture…and the patriots will be destroyed by our own police forces, the law, and bleeding heart idiots. We have lost. It is over. I have been screaming at the top of my lungs for 3 decades that our end is near, and have nothing but destroyed vocal folds and scornful comparisons to hitler to show for it.

America richly deserves its fate.

ecamorg on May 17, 2006 at 7:32 PM

How come there’s no virtual fence around the White House? But a real once made of heavy wrought iron and backed up by innumerable Secret Service men.

dennisw on May 17, 2006 at 7:32 PM

Not long enough. We need 700 miles…

Federali on May 17, 2006 at 7:35 PM

Wonderful, we’re going to build a 370 mile fence. What the heck is this going to cost us. and who is it going to keep out? They will either dig under or climb over this thing. ENFORCE the law! ILLEGAL should mean just that! Send them back, and when they come back LEGALLY, noboby has a problem. I’m surprised that this isn’t a slap in the face to those who bothered to come here legally.

suprglid on May 17, 2006 at 7:41 PM

I think law enforcement should arrest and prosecute those folks who hire illegals. If people are afraid to hire them for fear of being arrested, we won’t need a fence. They’ll all stay home because there will be no work for them. Call it: Supply-side immigration policy.

Kevin

kevinseattle1 on May 17, 2006 at 8:15 PM

First, we need to put those big wind driven turbines in Nantucket Sound next to the Kennedy Compound. Then, send all the electricity generated down to the border for a 2,000 mile electric fence.

right as rain man on May 17, 2006 at 8:46 PM

The FIRST THING to do is hope the Supreme Court can take an appropriate case and rule that illegal aliens are not entitled to any federal government benefits or services (California can do whatever it wants to wastes its taxpayers’ money).

SECOND, someone with guts in Congress needs to introduce a resolution to amend the Constitution to exclude from automatic citizenship anyone born in this country whose parents (or 1 of them) are here illegally. Then 2/3 of the state legislatures need to ratify it.

THIRD, we need a federal law that any company convicted of having an illegal alien on its payroll shall be barred from consideration as a federal government contractor for 2 years.

With these changes, I do not think we need to spend one red cent building a wall to keep ’em out.

Labamigo on May 17, 2006 at 9:40 PM

Labamigo

Plus seize the assets of companies hiring illegals, just like they do drug dealers. Let’s say after their 2nd offence.

msplitt on May 17, 2006 at 10:02 PM

Re Bush’s Monday speech –
Ann Coulter announced that it would be a good thing if Bush were impeached in order to have “President Cheney.” This she said on the Al Rantel Show (KABC local Los Angeles) around 6:10PM PDT.

BeeCharmer on May 17, 2006 at 11:15 PM

Would anyone here expect anything less than complete resistance from a Kennedy to ANY measure to reduce illegal immigration?

Another issue on control of our borders has not been mentioned – if the “Bird Flu” mutates into something that can be transmitted from human to human quarantine would be impossible. Quarantine is a major stratedy of Health Authorities if an outbreak occurrs.

The only consolation is that disease transmission is a two way street. Can you picture in your wildest imagination Mexico aggressively going for border security? (If so it would be only one way, in to the US but not back to Mexico. Send them our sick, tired, and hungry may be Mexico’s motto)

omegaram on May 17, 2006 at 11:18 PM

Forget the fence, Americans want a WALL, and people guarding that wall with GUNS. Well, SOME do anyway, but apparently not any that matter.

NRA4Freedom on May 17, 2006 at 11:47 PM

Good idea…….
Have independent contractors build sections of the wall……
Then have the illegals that we know were used to build that section drive down and install it on the border.
Then kick there ase out on the other side.
If they insist on coming back into America show them the way back (They can be very ignorant)
If they still persist SHOOT them.

Kramer on May 18, 2006 at 8:10 AM

I guess it would be a good idea that if you wanted to build a fence around your yard to keep your pets in, it would be ok to only put up 1/4 of the fence because the dog would understand that he should not leave through the remaining unfenced areas.
Smart.

Kramer on May 18, 2006 at 9:18 AM

What a clown this guy is………..if only they could do a soul autopsy. They’d find he doesn’t have one.

darwin on May 18, 2006 at 9:29 AM

We should try to be accurate so we don’t lose the debate over technicalities. Kennedy is correct that it is not a criminal offense to be in the US illegally. It is a civil offense. Crossing the border illegally is a crime, but overstaying a visa, for example, is not. I saw an estimate that about 60% of illegal aliens got here by illegal border crossing.

mikeyboss on May 18, 2006 at 7:37 PM

Build a 2000 mile long fence, triple-layered, and it will save lives at the same time. Had we done this years ago, a 3 year old Mexican who died out in the desert of AZ, would’ve been prevented.

Think of this as saving lives, folks. Once these Mexicans know that there is a 2000 mile long, triple-layered fence out there , they’ll be less likely to make the trek across the desert and die of dehydration or heat stroke, and take the direct route to the U.S. by following U.S. immigration laws.

If Vicente Fox says no, he is agreeing that Mexicans should die while trekking to the U.S. He has the responsibility to manage his side of the border…but doesn’t.

Build the fence and save lives….it might be yours. Uh, that would be any potential Mexicans reading this who are thinking of crossing the border…ILLEGALLY!

Kokonut on May 18, 2006 at 8:31 PM

By the way Michelle, why not set up a National Southern Border Fence fund for people who are willing to donate $10, $100 or $1000 to help pay for the fence? And help save lives in the future. And our sanity, too.

If 100 million American adults are fed up with this and each contribute $10 to the cause. That would be $1 billion dollars…enough to build another 350 mile fence. No “smart fence” but a real fence.

What say you Michelle? Anybody reading this? Get Michelle attention on this and set up National Southern Border Fence fund!!

If America is serious, Congress will see just how big this fund could get and, well, you know, money talks.

Kokonut on May 18, 2006 at 8:39 PM

I agree about the wall; desperately needed. I’d donate to it, heck, I’d donate a week of my time to help build the darn thing. We’ll never get a grip on the illegal problem until we stop the flow!

You know these Senators know it too; they’re just so afraid of being labeled by the MSM as insensitive, and afraid of offending the Latino vote, they’re cowed into paralysis. They’d rather allow terrorists into the country than speak the plain truth. Shameful.

right as rain man on May 18, 2006 at 9:16 PM

Well, we do have this “Habitat for Humanity”. Something of a similar vein for the fence building? Build a fence, save a life.

Kokonut on May 18, 2006 at 9:20 PM

I will definitely help with the Wall !!!!!!

Kramer on May 19, 2006 at 7:47 AM