Moussaoui

posted at 9:10 pm on May 3, 2006 by Bryan

I just can’t help thinking–”He could have averted a war.”

If Moussaoui had talked, there would have been no 9-11. More than 2,700 who were slaughtered would still be alive.

If Moussaoui had talked, and we had prevented 9-11, there would have been no war in Afghanistan. We only went into Afghanistan to root out the Taliban, because it was shielding al Qaeda, and al Qaeda perpetrated 9-11.

If Moussaoui had talked, we would not have been on edge about WMDs and therefore would not have gone back into Iraq. We would not have had three years of insurgency, nearly 2500 troops killed and thousands more wounded.

It’s a good thing that we deposed the Taliban and drove al Qaeda from its Afghan bases. It’s a good thing Saddam is deposed and in the dock, and the Iraqi people have a chance at freedom.

But in a purely nationalistic sense, would it not be better if we weren’t at war? If the most controversial thing Bush had done since taking office was his tax cut or his education policy? Wouldn’t it be better if we hadn’t become so divided over our own self-defense.

If Moussaoui had talked, there would have been no 9-11, no war in Afghanistan, no war in Iraq. But he didn’t talk. He didn’t avert the war. And today, the jury let him live anyway.

I don’t care if giving him the death penalty would have made him a martyr. We need to make a lot more martyrs, out of every last member of al Qaeda that still breathes.

I don’t care that he had a rough childhood. A lot of people who have rough childhoods don’t grow up to join a band of war criminals.

I don’t care if he’s mentally disturbed. You have to be mentally disturbed to join up with the monsters he called friends.

I only care that he could have talked, and didn’t, and that the jury could have delivered justice today, but failed.


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And I still blame the judge, Clinton appointed Leonie Brinkema, for always siding with the defense even when the man bragged about his role in 9/11, mocked America and its assinine justice system which should never have been the venue in the first place, and was thoroughly unrepentant and defiant. The Clinton legacy in the WOT continues. Sandy Berger. Leonie Brinkema. Mary McCarthy. The list just goes on and on. And somehow nobody seems to get it.

pistolero on May 3, 2006 at 9:19 PM

The polarization between liberal secular winnies and conservative god-fearing hawks, has never been wider.

Let’s split the country, Liberals on one side and Republicans on the other and lets see which country ends up being the more productive.

I am sick and tired of liberals ruining our country!! Everybody else who feels the same way, must get out and vote because these lying cheating back-stabbing liberals will use voter fraud to steal the election.

They do it in every city, especially Philly. So we need “fly over country” to get everybody to vote.

We cannot allow the liberals to get control of our country, look what they’ve done to the courts!!!

Enough!!!

Richard Davis on May 3, 2006 at 9:32 PM

I hate to say it, Richard, but we were doomed as soon as the phrase ‘Religion of Peace’ was first uttered by our Commander-in-Chief. It has been downhill from there. Now, we can’t possibly execute a conspirator to mass murder because he is a worshipper of ROP. And had a troubled childhood you see. It’s just not cricket.

pistolero on May 3, 2006 at 9:46 PM

So now the terrorists and people around the world are laughing at The United States. Even when we have an admitted terrorist with responsibility in the 9/11 attacks, we don’t have the stomach to execute him. It’s a sad day for our country.

themediansib on May 3, 2006 at 9:51 PM

I seem to be having posting problems again, so I will repeat my post.

That jury should have given Moussaoui the death penalty. So what if he attains martyrdom, at least he will be dead for being a terrorist. That jury evidently does not really believe in the death penality (not to be taken lightly, of course) or they felt that due to Moussaoui being abused from a disfunctional family that he should not get the death penality. Jugde Brinkema did not have to scap evidence, witnesses, whatever just because of an e-mail (as I understand the situation).

ALL TERRORISTS AND THEIR SUPPORTERS ARE TOILET BOWL WATER DRINKING ANIMALS!

The False Dervish on May 3, 2006 at 9:51 PM

Bryan, I hear what your saying and I agree to a point.. The loss of human life on 9-11 is a tragedy and Moussaoui should have received the death penalty. I still argue that regardless of 9-11, we should be at war with the Islamo-fascists. They have been at war with us since long before 9-11 and even if the terrorist plot on 9-11 had failed, we would still need to be vigilant in the war on terror. I hope for the sake of all peace loving people the world over that 9-11 was the “mistake” that the terrorists made. By this, I mean awakening the “paper tiger” that Bin Laden described and galvanizing our resolve. Since 9-11 that resolve has been steadily eroding to the dread of many on our side. I pray that people like you, Michelle, and the Hot Air team keep on message so no one ever forgets.

RobertCSampson on May 3, 2006 at 9:57 PM

This terrorist should have been tried by Court Martial and hanged publicly by the neck until strangulation had done its proper job. The trial should has been scheduled for the day after the Terrorist ceased providing actionable information to his insistent interrogators. The interval between the ordained Verdict of Guilty should have allowed time, and no additional time, for the Last Rites if the scoundrel desired to attempt a cleansing of his soul. I must wonder if America is serious about this LONG WAR legacy of the most recent Democrat Regime that defiled the Federal Executive. So much that could have been done during the 1990s to have forestalled the LONG WAR was not even contemplated by our Grasshopper President. It is now well past time to begin hanging the Terrorists we are presently feeding. That solemn process would begin to impress upon World Opinion that America is in earnest. I would volunteer to pull the lever causing a portion of the gallows floor to fall away permitting the Dance upon the Air to be enacted yet again. Gladly!

Waumpuscat on May 3, 2006 at 9:58 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that life in prison is a worse crime than death? Maybe if I were an atheist, I could see it the other way. Either way you die, it’s just a matter of how long you’re made to rot in prison before it happens.

What the death penalty delivers is revenge. And, that can be cathartic, although not especially helpful if we want to consider ourselves morally superior. “Life in prison” may not be be a sentence that delivers the sort of powerful closure that putting a bullet in his brain would, but does that make it less just or just less satisfying?

Mark Jaquith on May 3, 2006 at 9:59 PM

make that “a worse PUNISHMENT than death”

Mark Jaquith on May 3, 2006 at 10:00 PM

I dunno Mark. If some guy is complicit in executing thousands of our people and he is now able to grant interviews with Barbara Walters and can singlehandedly display what wimps we are it just might be better if he is dead. Now we openly have this mass murderer who were are too cowardly to kill and the Taliban at at Yale. Call me crazy. This is Mogadishu II. The whole world sees that we are totally consumed with political correctness and don’t seem all that concerned about protecting ourselves. It’s as if we just don’t care if they slaughter us. All over the islamofascist world is can hear the celebrating the fact that their enemy has surrendered to the religion of peace. allah be praised.

pistolero on May 3, 2006 at 10:13 PM

And, that can be cathartic, although not especially helpful if we want to consider ourselves morally superior.

There’s not enough evidence yet that we’re morally superior? We have to put this dude up in the Hotel Leavenworth for fifty years to prove it?

Allahpundit on May 3, 2006 at 10:14 PM

many typos. sorry.

pistolero on May 3, 2006 at 10:14 PM

I sort of agree Mark,

Im all for Capital Punishment but this lackey will suffer more in jail for life. I honestly dont care about the world viewpoint sparing from the DP.

JVelez on May 3, 2006 at 10:15 PM

Revenge is utterly appropriate in this case. We often whine about how war makes us “more like them,” and in the very narrow sense of mortal combat it’s true–we kill as they kill, and if we kill more of them than they kill of us then we win. But in the moral sense it’s a false statement. The terrorists kill for its own sake and for conquest; we kill to protect others from more terrorism and from the terrorists’ imperialism. We kill the terrorists to maintain liberty. We are not only not becoming more like them, in killing them we are keeping the entire world from falling under their grip.

So it is with death in the Moussaoui case. He could have saved thousands of lives–by talking. He didn’t, and we’re at war and will be for decades to come. That animal Moussaoui could have spared the world the horror of 9-11 and the wars that have followed, and he chose of his own free will not to. He will get to spend the rest of his life in a US jail, thumbing his nose at us, and he will be a celebrity among his fellow jihadis. He deserves death, a thousand times if it were possible. The human race would be better off having rid itself of him.

Bryan on May 3, 2006 at 10:16 PM

I keep thinking that if you don’t live in this country, you don’t go to work everyday and see people trying to make a better life for their families, you just see the news as printed by Reuters, Al Jeezera (sp?) and the other antique media.

According to those sources, we have become a nation of pussies. This verdict will re-affirm that opinion. This is why Iran and Mexico and Venezuela and North Korea and even Bolivia feel that they can stand up against us now.

Where’s a decent hammer when you need one?

-FOG

Fogpig on May 3, 2006 at 10:23 PM

Ya know , I just gotta hear from one of the jurors.
It only takes one to oppose the death penalty and it might have been just that.
Maybe one of them will tell us something….. before they make a frickin movie.

shooter on May 3, 2006 at 10:38 PM

Do not look on such a man with pity. Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, and foot for foot! Dt 19:21 Let us not forget that this passage is not a call for vengence but for justice. The jury has laid out it’s justice and for what its worth the decision was final because justice is blind.

JamesAKaplin on May 3, 2006 at 10:43 PM

The terrorists kill for its own sake and for conquest; we kill to protect others from more terrorism and from the terrorists’ imperialism. We kill the terrorists to maintain liberty. We are not only not becoming more like them, in killing them we are keeping the entire world from falling under their grip.

In the battlefield, yes. But there is a vast difference between that and killing someone who is a secured prisoner. Killing Moussaoui doesn’t protect anyone, or make anyone else more free.

He will get to spend the rest of his life in a US jail, thumbing his nose at us, and he will be a celebrity among his fellow jihadis. He deserves death, a thousand times if it were possible. The human race would be better off having rid itself of him.

For all intents and purposes, we are rid of him. He’s in prison for life. Unless I go to prison myself, and end up in his cell block, I’ll never have to worry about him again.

Now, given a gun and 5 minutes without consequences, yeah… I’d like to make him suffer and die. But that’s not justice. That’s revenge. That’s making me feel better by hurting him back, and taking his life.

Mark Jaquith on May 3, 2006 at 10:46 PM

We’re paying for his sustenance. We’re paying for that Koran he reads and uses to justify his acts. Media will interview him. Books will be written about him. And he’ll be alive to comment on events as they transpire, and he’ll be alive to recruit for the jihad in our jails. So we aren’t rid of him. He’ll be with us for decades, as will the war he could have averted.

And as I said, revenge is perfectly appropriate.

Bryan on May 3, 2006 at 11:37 PM

Even if he had been given the death penalty he’d still be alive decades from now due to endless appeals. Let him rot in prison. I’ve already forgotten about him.

Metro on May 3, 2006 at 11:39 PM

Yeah, I don’t get the badmouthing of revenge either. An eye for an eye. Or rather, an eye for 3,000 eyes.

Allahpundit on May 3, 2006 at 11:39 PM

How many of these jihadis and reconquistadors are we going to put in prison for life? Which one of you wants to foot the bill for just one for 50 years? I’m already paying way too much for both legal and illegal people who don’t want to work and expect me to cater to their every whim. This man need to be eliminated. His words, “America, you lost” have been proclaimed on every newspaper and website today. How much would an advertising firm charge for that kind of publicity. This man was an enemy from within, a traitor, trash, vermin – shows no remorse. He has little potential for rehab. He should be gone – We don’t want to allow him martyrdom — Where is our faith and belief? There are no virgins for him, he will just be dead, and ready to meet his REAL maker (won’t HE be suprised?).

CountryDoc on May 4, 2006 at 1:10 AM

I think the “death penalty” (like, it would ever REALLY happen) would have been wrong too. Strap him down, stick in an IV & breather & waste tubes, and _don’t_LET_him_die_. Or sleep. Or eat. Or drink. Or speak. Ever again.

THEN get out the wire brush and spray bottle(s) full of brine. And televise it worldwide – “THIS is what WILL happen when we catch you”.

solitas on May 4, 2006 at 1:16 AM

Maybe it’s just as well he spends his life in solitude in Marion. If he got death, it would be years before the hammer came down on him. His sentence starts immediately and he’s out of the news and incapable of his further courtroom rants that only serve to encourage more of his kind.

Plus he doesn’t get his 72 virgins. He’ll be the only virgin getting anything real soon. Bend over and face Mecca, asshole!

kmackie6612 on May 4, 2006 at 6:13 AM

This discussion of an abstract morality, while the Moslems, secure in their certitudes, gloat, is an indicator of a profound lack of seriousness on the part of an America that only wishes that the Long War had never happened. The “morality”, which blithesomely accepted the human collateral damage (Read: Dead civilians.) caused by destroying the transportation infrastructure of the Balkans from 40,000 feet, rejects a condign death for an acknowledged and guilty terrorist with blood on his soul and contempt for America in his breast. An America at war should not ask her soldiers to kill her enemies while her Judiciary wrestles with scholastic sophistries over the disposition of terrorist trash. Convene the Courts Martial and hang the terrorist vermin!

Waumpuscat on May 4, 2006 at 6:13 AM

Ladies & Gentlemen who want Moussaoui executed: Shame on you don’t you know that he had an abusive father, raised by only his mother, and was made fun of when a child. Obviously, he is just a wayward misunderstood person.

Sarcasm/ off

The reason most peeps don’t like the life in prison sentence is that they know down the road the Loony Libs will start to feel sorry for the debris and want him let go because he has done his time.

The thing I dread the most is all the LSM flocking to the prison to get interviews. The only interview granted should be with Smith & Wesson.

Wil on May 4, 2006 at 7:07 AM

I’m not against the death penalty, but I’m not too sure that life in prison is much better. Maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll get bent over by “Bubba” in the shower, and get a “pork injection”.

hoosier_federalist on May 4, 2006 at 8:41 AM

Plus he doesn’t get his 72 virgins. He’ll be the only virgin getting anything real soon. Bend over and face Mecca, asshole!

LOL!! Exactly why Im for life in this situation.

I understand the article, but think of it this way…

If Moussaoui WOULD have talked:

90% percent of us wouldnt know who Osama is.
Airport Security would be more of a joke than it is now.
We would’nt have a clue what radical islam is.
We would’nt know who the taliban were.
We would’nt have a Patriot act.
We would of approved the Dubai Ports Deal
Immigration would not be an issue
Sadamn and his sons would still be in power (well thats debatable)
We wouldnt see the U.N and for that matter France, Russia, and Germany as a bunch of wussies
A chance of stopping would STILL NOT have been guaranteed.

And most importantly we would of been as secure as 9/10.

I hate the man personally, I think a lethal injection would be too easy for him.

JVelez on May 4, 2006 at 8:42 AM

He’ll write several children’s books and the Hollyweirdo’s will campaign for his release.

doingwhatican on May 4, 2006 at 9:12 AM

*UPDATE*

I was curious about Supermax and this is what I found out. He will be in solitary 23 hours out of the day with virtually no contact with other inmates. His cell is 7×12 and is soundproof. He’ll have a desk, stool, and bed; all of which is concrete. He’ll also have a toilet and shower.

A former Supermax employee said that Moussaoui will virtually rot there from the stark conditions.

He will not have a television or internet access…which I’m sure the ACLU and the limosine liberals will fight for. I’m waiting for cLooney to play him in “The Life of Zacarias Moussaoui”. Maybe he’ll become a celebrity like that Abu Jabu guy who killed that cop?

Unfortunately, it seems he won’t get that pork injection after all…

hoosier_federalist on May 4, 2006 at 9:23 AM

Seems like another clear case of Shelby Steele’s white guilt.

kmcguire on May 4, 2006 at 9:25 AM

It is a pity that Moussaoui will spend most of his time in solitary confinement at a super-maximum security facility. I think that he should have been placed into a maximum security facility where he would have been in the exercise yard with the other prisoners. With luck, Moussaoui would have been beaten up by the other inmates every day for the rest of his pathetic life. And when he dies, he’ll have 72 old whores waiting for him, each looking like Yasser Arafat.

chsw

chsw on May 4, 2006 at 10:37 AM

Have we learned nothing from this war on terror? The terrorists are even more motivated to destroy us. They see the USA as weak, they feed off the divisiveness so prevalent here as caused by our lawmakers. They are counting on the dems to regain power in the upcoming 2006 and 2008 elections. If, God forbid, the dems do just that, the Islamofascists will expect capitulation from us.

We cannot even put this Muzzie to death, thanks to the bed-wetting, thumb-sucking liberals and their dangerous ideology.

doingwhatican on May 4, 2006 at 12:25 PM

Moussaoui’s words: “America has lost. I have one.” Has great meaning. His message is quite clear that after all that America has been put through, America lacks the resolve to put someone to death whom deserves it. America can be swayed by sob stories, despite what Moussaoui has confessed to being part of the 9/11 murders.

When a terrorist survives in any capacity, it gives the rest of them hope.

To Mark Jaquith:

I see your point about life imprisonment, but why should we spend $36,000 to feed and care for Moussaoui? I am sure you have heard the arguments of the chance that he will grant interviews to spread his propaganda. The ACLU will file injuction after injunction everytime Moussaoui complains about something. Solitary confinement just might be something that he will enjoy. Do not forget, despite what we think of terrorists, they are a disciplined lot who have prepared themselves for hardship for the sake of Jihad.

If Moussaoui were sentenced to death, that would be justice because he was not randomly chosen to be killed like a lynch mob goes about grabbing anyone who makes a convenient victim.

We would not have killed Moussaoui because he received a trial in a court of law, not in the back room of a whore house, or a night club, or in a cave.

Revenge? Justice? Sometimes revenge is justice.

The False Dervish on May 4, 2006 at 5:14 PM

Can we bill the French for the annual $100,000.00 to keep his damn ass alive?

doingwhatican on May 4, 2006 at 6:04 PM

I see your point about life imprisonment, but why should we spend $36,000 to feed and care for Moussaoui? I am sure you have heard the arguments of the chance that he will grant interviews to spread his propaganda.

The economic argument falls flat, because the cost of executing him is more expensive, by at least an order of magnitude. I’m no expert on prison, but from what I’ve been hearing, he’s going to be in a maximum security prison, and won’t exactly be making nightly appearances on 20/20.

Yes, sometimes justice and revenge can be the same thing, but the comments above make it very clear that many people think that they are inseparable, at least in this case.

Mark Jaquith on May 4, 2006 at 6:27 PM

To Mark Jaquith:

My economic point was minor, but I cannot agree that it does fall flat. Our former Gov. Cuomo would also say that it costs more to execute someone, but he would never say in what way when asked (no, Mark, I am not lumping you together with Gov Cuomo..NO WAY!!) I just want to know why do YOU say it is more expensive to execute some one? How much does it cost to inject poison in him, or to gas him, or to electrocute him, or to hand him, death by firing squad? Once it is done, it is done.

Yes, of course Moussaoui will be in the Super-Max prison in Colorado for about 23 (?) hours a day. That is no joke, but, again, he might just like it and Jihadists are trained for hardship. And, I will say again that his message “I have won and America has lost.” has great meaning (see my prior posting).

His not being executed sends the wrong message to the terrorists. And, in this case, I feel that revenge IS justice.

The False Dervish on May 4, 2006 at 6:57 PM

Also, a message must be sent, that those who attack America and target Americans for murder will pay the price in the language that enemies of America (especially terrorists) understand…THE LANGUAGE OF DEATH. No games, no nonense, no melodrama.

The only good terrorist is a DEAD terrorist.

The False Dervish on May 4, 2006 at 7:10 PM

Admiral Yamamoto was the architect of Pearl Harbor, and a reluctant one at that. It took our spies a while, but they eventually learned his movements and our pilots used that information to shoot his airplane down. The message was sent and received: Attack America, and die.

With Moussaoui, who was not a reluctant player in 9-11, we have sent a different message: Attack America, play up a psychobabble sob story, and you’ll live a long time to taunt us on our dime.

I prefer the message we sent to Yamamoto, but maybe that’s just me.

The fact is, our civilian courts are clearly not the proper venue to deal with the likes of Moussaoui. He’s an illegal enemy combatant beholden to war criminals. He deserved a long stay at Gitmo, a military tribunal and a firing squad.

Bryan on May 4, 2006 at 9:19 PM

solitas – love your idea! You’re a riot! I feel the same way, are we twins?

Richard Davis on May 6, 2006 at 6:28 PM